dust, mud call it whatever you want - grinder issues

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dust, mud call it whatever you want - grinder issues

Postby dsc » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:40 pm

Hi guys,

I've noticed Jason mentioned something about filtering an FP brew through a paper filter which took ages and I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss this issue.

Recently I've been mechanically sifting the grinds that my Macap produces and here's what I got:

Dust:

Image

Coarse grind:

Image

I was using 16g of coffee which is my dose for 300ml FP and 3g of it was pure dust, probably fine enough to use for espresso.

You can definitely taste the difference between the sifted and unsifted brew, the latter being muddy, bitter and basically sh*t. Now I was kind of hoping to buy a Ditting/Mahlkonig for FP but I cannot justify a huge 650/1000W grinder to grind 20g per day. I can't say anything bad about the MC4 when grinding for espresso but it's useless on very coarse settings as 20% of each grind is fine dust which destroys the whole brew. I've tried sifting through a paper filter but had the same problems as Jason:

Image

[that's mud on the bottom, filter completely clogged]

Anyone else had similar problem with their FP brews?

Oh and just because I like this picture:

Image

Regards,
dsc.
"This week I are mostly...trying to build a grinder..."

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RE: dust, mud call it whatever you want - grinder issues

Postby quoad » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:48 pm

Can I ask, dsc...

How have you been 'mechanically sifting' your grinds...?

I'm intrigued :)

(and loving the last picture too :D)
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RE: dust, mud call it whatever you want - grinder issues

Postby Gadders » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:03 pm

As i posted in another thread i find my M5 which is the same as the m4 very dusty too. Perhaps i should invest in some new burrs instead of extending my knowledge of britains microbreweries every weekend?

Would a tea strainer or sieve work well to separate dust from FP grind dyu reckon?
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RE: dust, mud call it whatever you want - grinder issues

Postby dsc » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:36 pm

Hi guys,

I actually use a tea strainer to sift the grounds, simply pour them in and use a stick or a spoon to mix it which will push the fine grinds out. Of course this is both time consuming and quite annoying, especially in the morning, so I would gladly switch to a different grinder. The problem with that is they are either too expensive/big or are not of high quality (the Baratza Virtuoso looks very cheap and is quite light which I'm not happy with). I'm seriously surprised there's nothing on the market for FP aimed at coffee enthusiasts. Perhaps a modified Zassenhaus with a small DC motor on top would work?:)

Regards,
dsc.
"This week I are mostly...trying to build a grinder..."

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RE: dust, mud call it whatever you want - grinder issues

Postby Bombcup » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:46 pm

Mate, I thought you meant you sifted the grounds once or twice as an experiment. Every morning is quite some dedication.

I can clog a paper filter with french press I've made gound with the Mahlkonig. I think unless you use a 3 phase Ditting you will struggle to get much better, you are seriously into the realms of diminishing returns upgrading from your Macap.

There was a thread on H-B about a manual generic spice / flour mill someone used for coffee who complained it was no good for espresso because of the absense of fines. I'll try to find it...

Edit: Got it. http://www.home-barista.com/knockbox/ti ... t9581.html

Pricier than I thought.
Last edited by Bombcup on Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RE: dust, mud call it whatever you want - grinder issues

Postby Jasonscheltus » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:48 pm

Bombcup wrote:I think unless you use a 3 phase Ditting you will struggle to get much better, you are seriously into the realms of diminishing returns upgrading from your Macap..


I think even if you do (I mean, we do sometimes), you'll still get that dust enough to clog a paper filter.
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RE: dust, mud call it whatever you want - grinder issues

Postby bruceb » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Melitta recommends a blade "chopper" because they say it creates very few fines. I haven't verified this and it's not a recommendation, but most folks have an old blade grinder kicking around somewhere and it would be easy enough to try.
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re

Postby dsc » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:10 pm

Hi guys,

I can handle some dust (enough to clog a paper filter) but 20% is a huge amount.

I know Jim from HB used a Kenia (or Guatemala) for espresso and couldn't get anything nice because there wasn't enough dust. Most people recommend the Baratza Virtuoso for FP but paying 200$ for a plastic 'toy' seems a bit excessive.

Why is the dust generated anyway? is it the speed? the burr surface shape?

I haven't got a blade grinder to test, but I have an old MDF back in Poland and I remember it was giving me very good brews when I was visiting my parents a few months ago (it couldn't really grind fine enough for espresso though when I still had my Gaggia Classic).

Regards,
dsc.
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RE: re

Postby Neo » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:13 am

The last picture looks like tomato juice :D
From experience, a hand grinder would perform better when grinding for dripped/fp.
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RE: re

Postby dsc » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:10 pm

Hi Neo,

well I'm not so sure, although an HB member in Sweden will check it for me:) The reason for me to doubt a hand grinder is simply because some of them can grind well for espresso which means they produce fines in quantities probably bigger than you want for FP.

Regards,
dsc.
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RE: re

Postby al_bongo » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:55 pm

I agree that the build quality of the Maestro is plasticky and appears "toy like". Personally I wouldn't rule it out because of that.

I have put 500g of beans per week through my Starbucks Barista (a close even more plasticky junior relative) for at least the last 5 years with no problems.

Infact I've recently sent to Baratza for new burrs since I can't justify junking a perfectly good grinder because the burrs are worn.

Mind you if you are rough or particularly clumsy you will probably break it.
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RE: re

Postby quoad » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:41 pm

*cough

I purchased a new tea strainer today, as my old one didn't have fine enough holes to sift my grounds :oops:

TY, dsc!

That's +1 to the 'list of coffee-related behaviours my friends think are signs of questionable sanity' :)
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RE: re

Postby ivdp » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:07 am

Maybe it would be a good idea to use coffee that is roasted a bit darker.
Under roasted or very light roasted coffee, as I gather from the pictures, will acts completely differently from darker roasted coffee.
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RE: re

Postby quoad » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:17 am

Just tried using the Mazzer Major for an FP grind....

Far, far fewer fines than the Macap! The difference is phenomenal. I think I might use it as a dedicated FP grinder for a while...

e2a: to clarify. Where an unsifted FP grind in the Macap left a good smudged layer of sediment in the bottom of the cup (and a really powerful bitterness), the Mazzer's leaving fines that... well... look like leaves blowing across a parking lot. There are so few that I could probably count 'em, if I was really that bored. The difference it's made to a cup of Square Mile's Bolivian is indescribable!




e2a: ok, I'm overwhelmed by this morning's FP Square Mile subscription... I'd backed off FP for a while, but this is an absolutely awesome cup... The Mazzer discovery has been a revelation! Many thanks for starting this thread, dsc!
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RE: re

Postby dsc » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:46 pm

Hi everyone,

resurrecting an oldie for sure, but thought I'd add to what was written above. Had been having issues with brews for a long time now, tried various coffees from different places and every single time I was getting bitterish brews that tasted simply bad. Today I thought I'd try the sifting idea again, cause even though I have a Guat, smth isn't right. Used a tea filter as I had nothing else (the vibrating nozzle on the Guat helps with this, you simply grind in the filter and hold it against the vibrating nozzle to sift automatically). Results? damn awesome coffee! seriously a massive difference, I suggest anyone to try this sifting method at least once.

Regards,
dsc.
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