Photos in the forums

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May TMC re-use any photos posted to the forum?

Of course, no problem
12
57%
Yes, but please attribute them if you reuse them
9
43%
No I'd rather you didn't thanks
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No votes
 
Total votes : 21

Photos in the forums

Postby phil » Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:27 pm

Dear all

If you add a photo to a forum post then you are implicitly giving TMC the right to publish that photograph, because as soon as you press "Submit" that is exactly what will happen and you know that.

I *think* I made it clear in my recent thread requesting photos that any pictures sent to the forum *may* be reused to illustrate articles as we consider that we already have permission to use them.

However, I have just been gently told off by a valued TMC member and friend for doing exactly this.

I don't really know what to do here for the future. This bothers me a lot. We take great care normally not to use photos from elsewhere on the web, particularly after the accidental nastiness with Mark Prince earlier this year. (Ours was the accident, Mr. Prince's was the nastiness but I don't think that was accidental).

Clearly it isn't practical to ask every member who ever posts a picture on the forum whether or not we may have permission to reuse it at some unspecified time in the future.

I really don't know what the correct position is in UK copyright law (which is probably what governs this sort of thing as the server is in the UK and so am I).

I would like feedback from the membership as to whether they consider this policy of reuse to be appropriate as it stands. I'm adding a poll to this thread so that we can collate the feedback. Depending on the outcome, I intend to update our FAQ to clarify this situation.

Hanging my head in sorrow

Phil
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Postby Joey » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:16 pm

Hi Phil!
I think if someone posts a picture here outside the "members forum" he/she has to be aware that the whole world can see it anyway... so I would think that person doesn't mind it if the photo is used in another place of the forum, too.
Personally I would be proud if you could use one of my photos...but as I am not a professional photographer this will never happen >sigh<
When it comes to photos in the members part it might be better to ask....for some people. I personaly don't care as I wouldn't upload unwanted photos anyway :-D

Ok, but that was just my personal opinion - as a former GrafikDesigner I have to admit I would go to court if someone re-uses my designs without asking for my permission or paying for copyrights. ... but here I am talking about business rules in the creative business!
But as I don't see TMC as business, or business partner, client, customer, whatever..... you can make your own rules here about how to let the members state their will to share.

So I would state in the FAQ that, as long as nobody writes "copyright *name*" in the picture description (quicker then writing you an extra email), TMC is allowed to use it.

(Or I would recommend that everyone puts a copyright sign in his photo - but I assume not everybody has the program on the computer needed for that.....so C in the description might be better...)

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Postby quink » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:10 am

Would there be any confusion caused by the disclaimer by the php logo's at the bottom of the forum pages that says "the comments are property of their posters" does that include pictures? but this seems to imply that the poster retains the copyrite. For what its worth Phil you can use any photo I ever post, the total currently standing at 0.
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Postby Gouezeri » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:58 am

Hey Guys,
I think Joey makes some good points to which I would like to add the following:
TMC is non-profit, the only people who benefit from it are its users. The more we give to TMC the better it becomes as a forum.
As a community, therefore, we rely on trust and integrity which would imply that credit should be shown, where due and members may then take pride in their involvement and the evolution of TMC.
Consequently, my opinion is that anything posted in a public forum remains the property of the author (or 3rd parties) but implicit permission is given to TMC for this information/content to be reproduced for the sole purposes of the site. Courtesy would however suggest that credit should be given.
I hope this concise reduction of my thoughts makes sense.
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Re: Photos in the forums

Postby MKSwing » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:08 am

As long as TMC doesn't make money on the pictures, I don't where that could cause a problem. Anyway, maybe that bothers some members, in that case, one should send a quick message to the pic poster in order to ask him for the right to reuse his pic.
In my case, I couldn't care less :)
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Postby pault » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:10 am

I would suggest that the site includes a clear covering statement that mentions the points already made about the non-commercial nature of the site and states that a condition of posting a photo is its possible reuse (giving people exemptions might make keeping a track of things in future very difficult). If people then post photos they know the score if they have "issues" they shouldn't post - simple?

Personally, I get very depressed when people get precious over this type of stuff - so much for the information revolution and the sharing of our bits/bytes :harrumph:
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Postby Raf » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:11 am

I completely agree with what Dom said. And with pault. We mention the fact that we can reuse them, we'll attribute them, and if someone is bothered, we'll just replace them. I think sending mails every time is just too time consuming for Phil.
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Postby tisri » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:33 am

I'd say that if I post something to the forum it's there to benefit the membership. As such as far as I am concerned I am quite happy for TMC to use that picture to illustrate any other article on the site for the benefit of the membership.

If TMC was going to use my picture in a commercial context I'd want to know in advance, grant (or not) express permission and, of course, take some of the proceeds.

It seems to me that the easiest solution is to add something to the terms of usage of the site that the submission of any contribution grants the site a permanent, non-exclusive right to reproduce all or part of the work elsewhere on the site for non-commercial purposes.

It's something of a balancing act - we need to respect the rights of the copyright holder(s) of submitted work while also recognising that if people don't want something re-used on the same site they shouldn't be submitting it.
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Postby phil » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:15 am

John - re para 2, TMC is non-commercial so that doesn't apply. If we were ever to do any thing as a fund-raiser then I can't imagine it would be content based. However if the matter does come up you have my word that it will be discussed with and approved by the author prior to anything happening.

Re para 3, totally agreed and I'll get round to it shortly. I've been intending to do that for a while. And a load of other stuff too.

Re para 1, that's basically what my initial position was on this matter. However I think the wider membership feels that their artwork should at least be acknowledged and that's absolutely fine. If people don't mind though I'm not going to do this retrospectively (with the exception of the two recent articles that caused the issue to be raised in the first place).

Finally, if people provide photos with an article then I view the permission as being explicit and I won't ask any further.

That OK with everyone?
Last edited by phil on Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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No partridge, no pear tree either
Conas, Zassenhaus hand grinder....
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Postby zix » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:50 am

I am mostly restating here, but I feel the need to add my opinion.
I am a photographer (and teacher, and media producer). I have absolutely no problem with anyone reusing the images I publish on this site as long as it is inside the TMC forum. (Personally, I don´t care if it is used on other non-commercial forums also.) If I contribute something of greater significance here, like writing an article, sure it would be nice if I had a byline or something like that in case someone links to images from that article on this forum. But link to your hearts consent!
This is non-commercial, friends, and we ought not to bother phil or any other administrator, or a fellow member for that part, with limitations on the use of what we contribute here, whether it be text or images. As long as it is used in, and for, the forum. I thought this was obvious?
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Postby tisri » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:45 pm

phil wrote:John - re para 2, TMC is non-commercial so that doesn't apply. If we were ever to do any thing as a fund-raiser then I can't imagine it would be content based. However if the matter does come up you have my word that it will be discussed with and approved by the author prior to anything happening.

I know TMC isn't commercial - I just thought it was worth mentioning the context so it's covered if ever TMC does venture into anything commercial in the future. Truth be told it's hard to see any commercial use for a 50kb JPG of some coffee that's no more than 400x300 resolution.

phil wrote:Re para 1, that's basically what my initial position was on this matter. However I think the wider membership feels that their artwork should at least be acknowledged and that's absolutely fine.

I'd expect to be named as the creator of an article or picture - if a picture is reused or an article is substantially quoted it's just Good Practice to use a byline or an attribution. But I know I don't need to tell you that ;)
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