Fair Trade

[Steve]

Whats everyones thoughts on Fair Trade? I had an email Sunday asking why I dont do any Fair Trade. It kind of re ignited some thoughts I've been having recently.

My reply outlined the problems I have with the Fairtrade organisation. I dislike there advertising policy (spending lots of money on glossy adds does the farmer need this? ). Also does the farmer need swanky offices with an army of administrators? Fair trade will be bought by people who want to, it sells it self. Twelve months ago they spent huge ammounts on changing there logo to an F. WHY?

What the farmer does need is a fair price for a good product. The coffee industry needs sustainability, and a little bit of common snce. Does fairtrade fill this gap.

I'll get off my soap box now and look forward to a barrage of boo's and hisses

[phil]

Agree with what you're saying. We were both impressed with the presentations at Mercanta, which were about this sort of thing.

[DrZeus]

I think you need to make the distinction between "Fair Trade" and "fairly-traded." I support fairly-trade coffee, but not necessarily any particular organization that promotes it (ie: TransFair).

When I was first introduced to the idea of sustainable coffee (broadly meaning fairly-traded and/or organic and/or shade-grown) I put up the site at http://www.drzeus.net/coffee -- but I have since learned more about it, and recognize that I need to modify it so as to not directly support the Fair Trade stamp of approval. I don't believe that certification is what's important, so long as you can be assured by the buyer that a livable wage has been obtained by the farmers and their families. Same goes for organic and shade-grown. Most African coffees use organic and shade-grown methods simply because the farmers cannot afford the chemicals and equipment. Those coffees may not be certified as "organic" or "shade-grown" (and, most likely, they won't, since the farmers also cannot afford the premium they must pay in order to be so) but you know they are anyway.

Finally, while I believe it's important to support sustainable practices whenever you can, another approach could be to tell your customers that you support Coffee Kids (http://www.coffeekids.org), an organization aimed at improving the quality of life for children and families who live in coffee-growing communities around the world. While the coffee you sell may not be fairly-traded, a portion of the profits help support the same goals. You can also encourage your customers to do the same.

Just my thoughts...

[Sunnyfield]

Organic - If it is good quality I will pay for it;
Sweatshop - If there is a way to find out, I will avoid sweatshop beans, ie bad labour practices;
Fair Trade - I don't like it: not sustainable, promotes over-production, doesn't tackle the root of the problem: over-production.

I am largely against subsidies in agricultural products. I think the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) in Europe is the biggest market distorting scam in the world. It wastes my tax-money, and destroys initiatives in the Third World. With regard to fair trade it may even be cheaper to pay farmers to grow other crops rather than subsidising them for their coffee beans. If some farmers start producing a different crop, the supply-and-demand of coffee may be come balanced again, resulting in fair prices for the other coffee farmers.

Ah well, what do I know, huh?

[michel]

IMHO - fairtrade seen as an overall 'technique' to give something from our whealt to people who have less - is a good thing. On the other hand, there will be always people who benefit from the fairtrade, while others - who were keeping their heads above the water and now loosing their customers to fairtrade farmers, go bankrupt.
So I voted a YES. (but am having doubts if fairtrade will help in the long run...)

Michel

[Raf]

I'm sorry to say this is one of the many moral dilemma's that make my mind go in "stall". On one hand, I'm dead against any farmer (not to mention consumer) extortion by Big Coffee. I try not to buy any coffee from them. On the other hand, it's wrong to encourage farmers to grow coffee when prices are at this level. I didn't vote.

[peterj]

I have two particular examples of what fairtrade is.
1)During a trip to Costa Rica , l cupped many coffees. In Tarrazu there is a co-op label that is branded F/T. In a blind cupping (viewed by the growers and families) the FT co-op didn't score. Did it matter? They were going to get paid anyway.
2)Ft is big BIG business these days. It is an artificial vacuum that pulls you in and you're stuck. We started with a handfull of coffees and we have been drawn in. The best that these coffees will ever be is middle of the road. Regionals. No nuance. little excitement.
If you are a coffee farmer, how do you feel about being paid regardless of the quality that you purvey? It's Dead horse. You give early and late crop to the co-op and save the best mid-crop coffee for the markets where coffee is paid for on defects and cupping (in some countries). You can't blame the grower, just the branding body.
We feel duped so how does the average home coffee buyer feel??
Probably just reach for a jar of a well known direct plc.

[phil]

Like Peter, Eeffoc and the members of the group who went to Mercanta for the cupping event, I've heard Stephen Hurst bang on about this.

I have to agree. Fairly traded coffee has to be about giving a fair price for a good quality product that the grower can take pride in and the consumer actually wants to buy for the right reasons. If the Fair Trade brand isn't doing that, then to an extent I think it's hoodwinking the consumer.

Otherwise you might just as well give your coffee budget to Oxfam.

[alans]

Think back to before you knew what "Fair Trade" really means, I'm sure we all supported it in theory because we all want the grower to be paid a fair price. Of course then we find out the full facts and we find out that Fair is quite Unfair to small quality growers.

Quite a few times I've had the conversation with a friend that starts with the question "How can you buy coffee that isn't Fair Trade, it's not ethical" and I'm sure it's one I'll have many times more!

Now where does this leave Eeffoc and all other small coffee retailers? They know that their coffee is ethical but the uninformed public just wants to see the FT sticker, so either he has to educate every customer (hence risk losing a sale) or cave in and sell the stuff with the sticker. Luckily for Steve his sales are mostly web based so he can just write it up and put up a link rather than going through the whole conversation hundreds of times, which is something I've seen on quite a few bean seller sites.

Oh and the poll had expired but I would have voted no because I know that Fair Trade (with the capitals) is a trade mark.

[alans]

A quick search to find out what it would cost to get that sticker came up with this site:
http://www.fairtrade.net/sites/certific ... itial.html

So a small family farm in Ethiopia would be charged EUR 2000 for inital certification plus an annual fee of 500 EUR per calendar year, plus 0.015 EUR per KG of Coffee.

And they call that Fair!

[Steve]

HOLD ME BACK dont let me get started again

[mnemonix]

A question... Most of the coffee WE buy comes from small producers, represents the best coffee available anywhere in the world, and constitutes a tiny share of the market, so are the prices paid to these farmers typically higher (and fairer) simply by virtue of the superior product and the different market they trade in ?

I'd support fair trade if i knew it made a real difference but simply NOT buying Nestlé products (for example) is probably a more effective policy for the non participation in the exploitation perpetrated in the name of a 'free market'.

[Steve]

The guys who produce quality coffee get a good price regardless of the market. Good coffee fetches a premium. Fair Trade is often the stuff that just cant be sold for a good price as its just not good enough. There is no insentive for the Fair Trade farmer as he will get his price if he produces elixier or swill, so why should he bother?

[quink]

I like the idea of fair trade coffee, I dont think any one would like to think the farmers are being robbed blind so we can have a drink. However most of the fair trade stuff I've tried is just bad, I dont think I've come across one I'd buy again. In my opinion this has to be a marketing gimmick to guilt trip people in to buying a particular brand of coffee. Even more so now that I read that he farmer has to pay to be registered. I work for a living, as does everyone else, and in the time I have been working,I've learned that, nobody regardless of what they tell you, ever sells anything for a loss.

[kingseven]

To me the problem is Fair Trade is a good idea in principle (as all fairly traded coffees are) but it is not a solution, in any way, to the massive problems in the coffee production industry.
Regardless of its the quality issues, the Fair Trade branded stuff markets itself very cleverly. However, to use a cheap analogy, giving 50p to a guy on the street doesn't solve homelessness.

From what I've read coffee in general is far too cheap. Its about half the price it should be to substain itself as an industry - these findings coming from Oxfam itself. Figures I've read mean that this massive increase in coffee prices would end up being an increase of around 7p per cup - something that seems fairly sensible, and not too bank breaking - and this would geuinely benefit coffee farmers across the globe.

I've got to stop talking now, as I know I am a little out of my depth.