Substance abuse!

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How many shots do you need daily?

At least two
3
20%
At least three
8
53%
Between four and ten
3
20%
Er, just one and I hereby hand in my TMC membership and live on in perpetual shame as a would-be coffee lover
1
7%
 
Total votes : 15

Substance abuse!

Postby Raf » Thu May 13, 2004 1:27 pm

http://www.stanford.edu/~johnbrks/theCa ... feine.html

At doses of 250-700 mg/day, caffeine can cause anxiety, insomnia, nervousness, hypertension, and insomnia. Over 1000 mg/d can cause tachycardia, palpitations, insomnia, tinnitus, and cognitive difficulties. More than 10 grams of caffeine is lethal.

If you know that one espresso = 200 mg, we're all in danger of becoming anxious, hypertensed, nervous and insomniac! So, how many cups did you drink today?

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This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

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Postby quink » Thu May 13, 2004 2:18 pm

http://www.caffeinedependence.org

has an interesting little section about tolerance build up to the caffeine effects :) , but then goes on to dependence and addiction
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Postby Steve » Thu May 13, 2004 3:29 pm

Cant tick any box as I drink more filter than espresso and any hows I proberbly have mor than ten a day from start to finish when I'm on one
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Postby simonp » Thu May 13, 2004 3:43 pm

Interesting, I read recently that espresso had a LOWER caffeine content than a filter coffee due to the fast exteaction, so which one is true? I'm guessing the inclusion of robusta has a significant effect on this.
I find that a doppio espresso has less effect than a mug of press pot in terms of stimulant, and trips to the loo :lol:
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Postby phil » Thu May 13, 2004 4:03 pm

There was quite a lot about this on Sweet Maria's list a while back.

In summary I think the position is that espresso contains less caffeine overall but because it's more concentrated the effect is more "peaky" - you get a bigger bang more quickly.

Of course if you want to extend the hit you can just eat grapefruit. The naringen in grapefruit is supposed to impede the liver's ability to metabolise caffeine.
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Postby alans » Thu May 13, 2004 4:12 pm

Personally I find if I'm used to drinking coffee one way (espresso at the moment), and I try it a different way (a rare drip coffee at work) I feel the caffine. So four espresso feels about the same as one cup of filter for me.
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Postby simonp » Thu May 13, 2004 4:24 pm

In summary I think the position is that espresso contains less caffeine overall but because it's more concentrated the effect is more "peaky"


But this article quotes a single espresso at 200mg compared to 100mg for a 6oz 'normal' coffee, which means that the actual caffeine level quoted is higher overall. Where can we find the real story I wonder?

Simonp
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Chemex
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Rival popper, with split motor and dimmer mod on heater (retired)
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Postby phil » Thu May 13, 2004 4:47 pm

Single espresso at 200mg I don't believe. Double, maybe. Basically for the same amount of ground coffee the espresso method extracts less caffeine (as long as you do it right). 'Nuff said. Done deal. The trouble with some of these figures you're looking at is they're making you do an apples and oranges thing.

For example, at SCAA recommended coffee dosages (7.25g per 4oz demitasse - sorry about the mixed units) then your 6oz cup of coffee is going to be derived from at most just under 11g of coffee, whereas your espresso is going to be derived from 7g-8g per single or 14-16g per double. Also most people think the SCAA dosage is "too strong" so likely the reference 6oz cup is weaker.

Does that help with your trip to the fruit market?
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La Spaziale Lusso grinder (espresso),
Macap MC4 shop grinder (brewed coffee)
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No partridge, no pear tree either
Conas, Zassenhaus hand grinder....
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Postby simonp » Thu May 13, 2004 7:18 pm

I see what you mean. There just seem to be so many undefined variables in these type of articles. Robusta has 4 times(?) the caffeine od arabica and we don't know what beans they are basing their facts on. It would be nice to get some proper scientific facts for what I drink. For a given bean (ignoring the small variations of bean variety) type there must be am ammount of caffeine per g, and the average ammount of caffeine disolved by different brewing processes must be known, so surely it is possible to remove a lot of the variables, and get an accurate result. None of these articles that I have read seem to do this.

This reminds me of specs I see for audio amplifiers that quote say 150W of power without saying whether this is peak or RMS, at what distortion level it is measured, what impedence load, and at what frequency it is measured, without these the power figure is utterly meaningless.

Sorry, rant over articles over :oops: I just like to see proper facts. If I believe the above articles figures then I am in trouble, drinking a cappuccino at breakfast (made with a double) and a double espresso in the evening that's 800mg!

Cheers,

Simon
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Postby flimbag » Sat May 15, 2004 3:51 pm

Here's a link to a caffeine FAQ that claims that a 7oz cup of drip contains between 115-175mg, whereas a single shot of espresso contains around 100mg.

The FAQ cites proper references for its data.

I've read elsewhere that the reason for this is the speed with which the water passes through the coffee when making espresso, as this extracts the 'good' chemicals (flavinoids and aromatics) and leaves behind the bad ones (caffeine).

With drip, the water is in contact with the grounds for much longer, thereby extracting more caffeine.

http://coffeefaq.com/caffaq.html
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Postby kingseven » Sat May 15, 2004 4:05 pm

This is typical of the coffee industry. There are huge amounts of research done and (unsurprisingly) no one agrees. I think its important to see who is funding the research as it makes a HUGE difference to the findings.

For example: http://www.coffeescience.org/other.html quotes around 35-40mg. Keep reading the site and it will tell you that coffee is the cure for all disease and wrong doing in the world.

An amazing amount of money is spent on caffeine research and yet we still know relatively little. You have a to drink around 80 cups in a day to consume a lethal dose. Balzac's 60 a day killed him..........

I drank 15 espressos once. Felt a bit sick.
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Postby Steve » Sat May 15, 2004 4:08 pm

I once drank over 50 espresso's in a day to see what would happen (my mom told me I'd end up dead with my inquisitive nature) and was bordering on hallucinations, not something I would recommend, I wasnt well for quite a few days aftetrwards and recived no sympathy ! :(
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Postby Raf » Sat May 15, 2004 4:41 pm

Lol eeffoc. I have often wondered what would happen when you drink 50 espresso's, but I've never really felt the urge to try it out. Maybe that would be a fun article: "The day I survived 50 espresso's"
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

La Spaziale S1, Vibiemme Domobar (retd), Mazzer Mini Electronic, Behmor 1600 230V
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Postby Danny » Sat May 15, 2004 10:54 pm

One question: How old were you?
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Postby flimbag » Sun May 16, 2004 12:09 pm

Eeffoc wrote:I once drank over 50 espresso's in a day to see what would happen (my mom told me I'd end up dead with my inquisitive nature) and was bordering on hallucinations, not something I would recommend, I wasnt well for quite a few days aftetrwards and recived no sympathy ! :(


I'd be less worried about the hallucinations -- a misspent youth renders such things meat and gravy to me, though I will admit that hallucinations that derive from stimulant abuse tend to be rather unpleasant -- and much more worried about the impact of all that coffee on the action of my bowel.

Which leads me to a subject that I've been pondering for some time, but perhaps I should raise it in another thread.
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