LET THE GAMES START

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LET THE GAMES START

Postby illycrazy » Sun May 08, 2005 11:05 pm

"Now is the dawn of our espresso"

tell me my espresso freaks, who the hell was bad mouthing the illy boys :evil: ??ehh......not a good idea!!!!just cos your products aint' up too much!!
so let me know Who is on the side of right(illy) and who is on the side of 'wish i had a understanding of espresso like the illy boys/girls, but i dont"
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Postby mattmills » Mon May 09, 2005 2:28 pm

Fantastic.... It is true, the understanding that the guys at illy have of espresso is second to none. But it is worth saying that they are also creating a blend that has to taste the same week in week out, which is a tough task for any brand, and especailly for one with such a reputation.

This does not mean that it is the best espresso, mainly as this is a subjective question. But also I am sure that the guys at illy would be able to have a good crack, but only at blending a one off, and therefore it is impossible to mass produce. This is one reason why we blend such a range of coffees, in order to create a blend that can withstand the test of time and differing crop profiles.
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Re: LET THE GAMES START

Postby Gouezeri » Mon May 09, 2005 3:51 pm

"Illycrazy", or should that be just plain "Crazy"?
illycrazy wrote:"Now is the dawn of our espresso"

Wrong thread, you want to be checking out the thread on before and after coffee pictures in the morning! ;-)
who the hell was bad mouthing the illy boys ......not a good idea!!!!just cos your products aint' up too much!!

Do you want to provide some background for this? TMC is a forum for discussion and the sharing of both knowledge as well as opinions. Criticism which has been made here in the past on Illy products, has been related to pre-ground coffee (mainly red label, though the same is true of brown) which is sold as "espresso coffee". The problem here for many members of TMC (if I may be so bold to speak on their behalf), is that:
1. It's pre-ground, so once opened the process of oxidisation occurs rapidly (far from ideal).
2. There are only 2 types of grind, which is far from precise when you consider that many TMC members adjust their grind constantly during the day, for a wide variety of machines.
3. According to the information printed on the side of the packets or tins, it can be used in either French Presses or Filter/Drip coffee machines as well. Which is a contradiction that kind of misses the point of calling it "Espresso Coffee".
4. The age of the coffee is unknown; despite much research by Illy into techniques for preserving aroma, I can't think of any experts or documentation that doesn't claim that fresh is best. So you are better off buying from a local source where freshness can be insured. Better yet, one could follow the example of a growing number of TMC members and "roast your own"
5. Last but not least... they claim to only produce the one blend, which aside from limiting choice, presupposes that coffee production and conditions remain the same from year to year. TMC is fortunate to have as members a number of professional roasters who go out of their way to provide quality and variety according to market conditions. We are also fortunate to have members who run coffee shops who take pride in their selection of single origins. I can't imagine either group vaunting that they only sell one blend.

Precisely what "products" provided by TMC members were you comparing with, to state they "aren't up too much" [sic]?
Perhaps you were referring to the ESE pods?

Now, if you had based your "argument" on the wealth of research (some of which published) that Illy has done into coffee and espresso in particularly, you may have started an interesting thread that people would have participated in.

TMC is both a forum for discussion and a community of friends... you may want to consider this in the future when posting, providing people with some information as to who you are/where you come from and starting a thread which is conducive for discussion rather than the "game" you apparently aimed to initiate.
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Re: LET THE GAMES START

Postby Joey » Mon May 09, 2005 4:59 pm

illycrazy wrote:"Now is the dawn of our espresso"

tell me my espresso freaks, who the hell was bad mouthing the illy boys :evil: ??ehh......not a good idea!!!!just cos your products aint' up too much!!
so let me know Who is on the side of right(illy) and who is on the side of 'wish i had a understanding of espresso like the illy boys/girls, but i dont"
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


And what is "the game"??
If you want to know if we like or dislike Illy, here is my opinion:
I drank Illy a long time, bouht whole beans of course, but since I have my own single origins and blends - why should I???
And my coffees are freshly roasted. I don't know how long the Illy tin is in the supermarket.
But sure, Illy for me is still the best "mass production coffee" on the market, and I have great respect for Segnore Illy himself. (Still trying to get his book) And it's his espresso recipie I am using, too.

But rescently I visited a friend who ebayed a little 1group Reneka. As he has limited space in the kittchen, he has no grinder and bought Illy preground for espresso.... still too coarse!!!!!
No way you can get a descent espresso with that pregrind coffee. The water was falling through in 13 seconds. (yes we filled it full and tamped hard)

So I still cannot recommend it for every machine.

And Illy should take more care about their gastronomy clients. I was in a very good restaurant who managed to "burn Illy coffee". It didn't taste like Illy at all, it was horrible. He denied that his machine might be too hot, or the pressure too high. So I could only assume that their grinder has no sharp burrs and heated the coffee too much when grinding.... or maybe the machine was just too dirty from too burnt coffee...anyway - if Illy wants to taste good everywhere, they should take more care with "who makes my coffee and how"...
just my two cents

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"Latte" is french for "you've paid too much for your coffee"
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Re: LET THE GAMES START

Postby Gouezeri » Mon May 09, 2005 5:17 pm

joey wrote: (Still trying to get his book)

Joey, which book?
"The Book of Coffee: a Gourmet's Guide"?
"Espresso Coffee, The Science of Quality"?
"From Coffee to Espresso"?
Then there's the book on the cups "Illy Collection: A decade of Artist Cups by Illy Caffe"

Nb. There's more than one Illy: Francesco, obviously, but also Andrea and Riccardo who have all been involved in the books. Let me know what you are after and I'll send you a link as to where to get it (some of them are pretty pricey though)
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Postby michel » Mon May 09, 2005 5:41 pm

Strange btw... there seems to be:
-Espresso coffee, the science of quality, and
-Espresso coffee, the chemistry of quality
both by Andrea Illy (and both available form amazon.com btw...)
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Postby Gouezeri » Mon May 09, 2005 6:09 pm

michel wrote:Strange btw... there seems to be:
-Espresso coffee, the science of quality, and
-Espresso coffee, the chemistry of quality
both by Andrea Illy (and both available form amazon.com btw...)

Looks like the Science of Quality is the 2nd Ed (?), published late last year (both are hardback).
Oh and it seems as though I missed an Illy, there's Ernesto as well :-)
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Postby Joey » Mon May 09, 2005 8:52 pm

I think I mean Ernesto - the oldest guy, the wise one who knows so much about the chemistry...and that's the book I want, about all the chemistry ;-)

Thanks!
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Postby Gouezeri » Mon May 09, 2005 8:58 pm

you probably mean Andrea then (though Francesco is the grandfather both literally and figuratively)...
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