Worst espresso!

[CakeBoy]

Needs must Gabriel .... self preservation and all that.

[scook94]

Popped into a *$ today as I had the need to do some admin work while out and about and was also keen to try some of their drip coffee following the recommendation in another thread.

I was sat quite close to the counter and was privy to the "training" given to a poor unfortunate "new-start" by one of the more experienced "PBTCs" (who must have been all of 17!).Anyway, he was explaining the super auto and that it was calibrated to pour an espresso in "16 seconds on automatic and 18-21 on manual". 16 seconds, he explained was perfect.

He went on to demonstrate the subtleties of texturing milk, this training was completed in about 7 seconds. He was careful to stress the importance of keeping the jugs for soy and cows milk separate as they had been sued by a lactose intolerant customer who was served the wrong drink, they won the case though as they had "high priced lawyers".

All in all it was an interesting and entertaining experience. The Guatemalan drip I had was actually pretty good, if somewhat weaker than I like and not as warm as it could have been...

[Metalstar]

Seems to be very inconsistent from *$ to *$

A friend of mine is a supervisor at a *$ in a busy book/music store on a retail park, he was trained on a La Marzocco semi auto machine in a smaller town store and seems to be very competent with all the basics and takes pride in making it properly.

Unfortunately he agrees that 90% of the staff are just after a payslip and forget everything they are told and just press whatever buttons they remember. They use a superauto in his branch and I havent been impressed when i've tried it! The filter is usually ok though.

He said that they also quite often get a rollocking from the "Mystery Shoppers" who come in to check standards.

[CakeBoy]

He was careful to stress the importance of keeping the jugs for soy and cows milk separate as they had been sued by a lactose intolerant customer who was served the wrong drink, they won the case though as they had "high priced lawyers".

Justice for all .... or those that can afford the most expensive counsel?

Shows them up for what they are ..... buy our coffee but don't expect us to be responsible for any mistakes we make .....

He said that they also quite often get a rollocking from the "Mystery Shoppers" who come in to check standards.

But that is about all that happens ...... S$ is to blame as it does nothing to rectify the situation. It's all about paying lip-service ......

[RobC]

There are so many problems an no easy solutions, Bean to Cups or "Super Autos" are seen by too many people as the easy solution to good coffee - BUT you need to put good coffee in to start off with, you need to clean them regularly, they need the grind, coffee dose setting regularly (imagine if you will your first espresso shots, when you had a espresso blend you liked on a warm summers days and the pour was perfect - now imagine still using that grind and coffee dose (say 7g) today because someone had programmed it into you with no ability to change the grind setting, coffee volume etc to account for changes in barometric pressure, the organic product that is coffee or natural wear on the equipment.

Super autos or bean to cups, whatever you call them, will produce consitent drinks no doubt, but most of the time they will be consistently rubbish if the they are not cared for and set correctly. A 1 group commercial traditional machine and grinder with an operator who knows his arse from his elbow will outperform a bean to cup in both drinks produced and drink quality with ease at a fraction of the cost.

Bean to cups are relied on too much because it is believed that the process of making a espresso, cappuccino or latte is far too skilled a process to be passed onto shop staff. I believe a box of random motors and gears will produce a consistent coffee, but I know from this forum that a real person with only a passion for good coffee can produce a spectacularly good espresso, latte art etc from a home use machine using only their own skill and interest.

I don't think it is worth trying to bring down the chains, you know what to expect so if you still go there then fool you. It is nice to hear where a good coffee can be found, so more of this would be good. There is nobody to blame, just lessons to be learned. Chains are there to turn over volumes, of what they do not care. Whatever you want, it is always worth finding a specialist or independant that will tailor their service to your needs. An example amongst us is BazBean, who built his business on the quality of drink he produced, through hard work he put in and the quality coffee his footy shirt wearing roaster provided. The equipment was a means to an end, and even now with the top of the range Spaz he is utilising, the skill of the operator and the coffee blender and roaster play far more role then the clunky mechanics of the coffee equipment.

[HughF]

But can you find and **keep** a good barista at the wages generally available? Do any places pay really good wages for a really good barista?

Cheers,

Hugh

[BazBean]

Thanks Rob ...
I would say as an average minimum wage is about industry standard i guess?
maybe a few pence more, traditionaly the role is a fill in job not to dissimular to the pub trade.. a lot of students etc working part time and with a very high turn over of staff.
as Training is usually about 5 minutes surely this must contribute to the general feeling this is how IMPORTANT this role is ..
nice to see very profesional taylor made acamedys, sprouting up all over the place ...... I was in Newcastle last week and saw a fine example of such a new venture at Pumphreys amongst others.
Blame is easily approtioned and the guy in front of us usually gets the brunt of it but ultimatly owners are to blame, the shame of it is that if a bit of effort was taken like any sane individual would apply before opening a small business and the correct reaserch and training was aquired, the end result of earing money IMHO is far greater ?

Not to try and get employer of the month but... my Head Barista is paid higher than the Manager of the local Mcdonalds.

[jon]

Training is usually about 5 minutes surely this must contribute to the general feeling this is how IMPORTANT this role is ..
nice to see very profesional taylor made acamedys, sprouting up all over the place ...... I was in Newcastle last week and saw a fine example of such a new venture at Pumphreys amongst others.
Blame is easily approtioned and the guy in front of us usually gets the brunt of it but ultimatly owners are to blame, the shame of it is that if a bit of effort was taken like any sane individual would apply before opening a small business and the correct reaserch and training was aquired, the end result of earing money IMHO is far greater ?

That's interesting - where can I taste the results of this in Newcastle

[CakeBoy]

Baz's situation just goes to show that passion and quality are hard to beat. Folk like Baz are lifting the quality of the whole industry and are doing great things

[leecb]

Unfortunately they are too rare in the world of coffee

[bruceb]

Unfortunately they are too rare in the world:cry:

[BazBean]

That's interesting - where can I taste the results of this in Newcastle

in fairness Jon, I have not tryed a shop bought espresso in Newcastle for a long time but I am sure if you contacted said company, they would advise you of shops/outlets who have subscribed to this service. .

A great idea in principle and hopefully those who pay for such a service would not allow standards to drop. Training is only ever as good as the application therafter I guess?

[jon]

Thanks - will give asking pumphreys a try Tyneside cinema tend to do pretty decent cappucino (fresh pumphreys bean, good milk, etc.) and lovely coffee shakes and cocktails, but espresso's kind-of variable...

[bruceb]

Well, I had another "let's see what the espresso is like here" experience today, so I thought I'd hang it on here, although it isn't by any means the worst espresso I've ever had.

My wife, Karin and I took one of our cats to the dentist this morning and since Valentino (the cat) had to be anaesthetised we had a couple of hours wait, so we went to a little café. We ordered a light breakfast and I noticed a big Gaggia 2-group machine and thus ordered cappuccinos. I watched carefully as the young lady freshly ground enough coffee for 2 doubles, tamped with a hand tamper and then pulled two 30 sec shots. I was quite surprised at this, but when the cappuccinos came to the table they had a strangely familiar flavour. Finally it came to me...Lavazza! No doubt about it...and sure enough, I spied an open bag of "Crema e Aroma" next to the grinder.

A few minutes later the owner came in and I was surprised because I knew him from an Italian restaurant in another town. He greeted me in Italian like a long lost friend and ordered us three double espressi. I cringed, added some sugar and drank mine, then Karin's. After a few minutes I asked him why he was using Lavazza and he said, "You no like?" I said that it wasn't my favourite ( ) and he laughed and said "Ja, ist sch**sse!" Then he went on to say he had originally ordered freshly roasted coffee from Frankfurt and that one day the delivery didn't arrive so he had to quick get some stuff from the supermarket. After two days he realised that no one noticed the difference, even the regulars just drank and enjoyed it and now he saves 40% by buying whatever is on sale at the big wholesaler. "No one here even tastes the coffee." he said. "I could serve them instant as an espresso and they wouldn't complain. It's a waste of good beans to serve them better. Then he ordered us two more (Karin begged out) from his private stash, a Brazil Bourbon Santos SO. He apologised that it was already 10 days old, but it was superb! Chocolate, vanilla, orange...flavours I had not expected in the cup and a creamy mouth feel. Lovely.

So there you have a picture of what we're up against. People don't really care what you serve them. Why would a restauranteur make and effort to serve good coffee?

[Gouezeri]

Nice story Bruce.
Though to be honest, I'd be quite happy to find somewhere that actually had a secret stash!
More importantly, how's the cat?