Worst espresso!

[Aadje]

btw, is it possible to get an automatic machine (put beans in, push button, get coffee out) to make a reliably OK shot? If cafes/restaurants don't want to train staff, would that be a better option?

I think a professional full auto is way better than an untrained staff. Those machines are quite reliable to make the same quality every time. Okay, for us it's sub standard, but it's a hundred times better than the horrorstories above. But I only drink cappa's from such machines, for I don't want to find out how the espresso tastes without milk.

For the dutch: my experience is that Hema cappa's are a bit watery and the La Place (V&D) machines produce a very drinkable cappa. Although both are actually lattes (big cup whit lots of milk).

[jon]

re. superautos/starbucks - I've seen them using the superauto machines, but the espresso never tasted good to me And yeah, I'm sure there might be problems in training staff to push the right button (actually, I wish I was joking, but I've been served 'black america' with milk before...)

[Aadje]

No Starbucks in holland yet, and I'm sooooo happy with it, but the website starbucks.nl is already registered . . .

[tisri]

btw, is it possible to get an automatic machine (put beans in, push button, get coffee out) to make a reliably OK shot? If cafes/restaurants don't want to train staff, would that be a better option?

A pub near me has a high end Jura (I forget exactly which one). Most of the bean-to-cup machines I've seen are rated for domestic use so you'd need to either take a chance on it failing or shell out for a larger machine.

Cleaning isn't a big deal and grind coarseness can usually be adjusted with a menu setting or a twiddly knob. If places really don't want to make coffee properly I reckon they should be using an automated machine.

[BazBean]

Even if they managed to invent a decent commercial bean to cup machine that mangaged to produce decent espresso in the future,I honestly know i would hate it ....

remeber the TV series "fame" ... i would be that old music teacher who only loved the classical intruments and was allways going about the modern kids with there synthesisers not being real music .. mutter , mutter, mutter.

also we would need a special retirment home for old baristas ......... ? where we would remanis about the virtues of an E61 group ..

[bruceb]

There are very expensive, commercial superauto bean to cup machines, but they still have to be set up properly on a daily basis. Faema makes (or made) one that even adjusts the grind to provide a 28 ml/25 second single extraction. You just press "Initialise" once in the morning (or as required) and it makes 3 shots to get the grind right. I've had excellent shots from these in Italy where the machine was fed fresh, high-quality beans. At the airport in Frankfurt they produce Lavazza bean juice. Also, the machines tend to break a lot so they are not popular and may not even produce them anymore.

[phil2spill]

This interesting article on CG describes a machine that will probably replace the barista one day, e.g.

"In July 2005, I was privileged to be one of the first individuals to trial a new style "super automatic" espresso machine with several twists. It was price competitive to most two-group semi-automatics, with an independent boiler for steaming and independent settings for dosing, tamp pressure, and length of extraction. It was in some ways a "smart" machine, informing the operator of changes required to meet the optimum extraction. And very surprisingly, it only had one moving part, a chassis which allowed for a quick change - less than a minute! I ended up using this machine to extract espressos when evaluating my roasted coffees. It offered the most consistent extraction of the highest standard. The only skill required by the operator was knowledge of the characteristics of the machine."

Scarey

[Aadje]

I don't believe in machines outperforming a caring human being when preparing food or drinks.

[Beanie]

awwwwww Aadje... so sentimental But I have to agree... my dishes never turn out well if I don't add a drop of love or more in them

[bruceb]

Somewhere down the road we're going to have to figure out a way to differentiate between 1) The best possible espresso shot anyone can make, as we all make here on TMC and 2) A good drinkable espresso for a reasonable price that we can drink after in a restaurant after a meal or in a café when we're on the road. We can't expect 2) to ever meet the expectations of 1). But we can certainly hope for better than the dishwater we usually get served under the conditions of 2).

[Aadje]

So we're looking for the best substandard coffee . . . how ironic

The problem is #2 being overvalued and we not accepting that.

[bruceb]

I don't know how you mean that, substandard, Addje. I think that we have to be realistic about what is possible in a normal commercial setting. The restaurants I'm thinking of don't have a big enough staff to have anyone called a barista. Either the person who pulls the beers, serves the wine, tends the bar if there is one, etc. has to also operate the espresso machine. There are these kinds of people in these kinds of restaurants in Italy and they make excellent espresso because people would not come back if they were served the kind of crap we get here.

I've had a beautiful espresso, delicious and properly served at a little stand-up shack somewhere on the outskirts of Rome. The barista was a 17-year old girl who certainly didn't grow up with a portafilter in her hand, but she had learned to make excellent coffee with an old Faema machine.

I mentioned this last summer and was told immediately that lots of people here on TMC could make as good as or better shots. That's missing the whole point. We are devoted to good coffee. We are on the border (or over the border) of being lunatics about coffee. With that kind of devotion we had better be able to do as well as or better than a young person who is just trying to earn some pocket money by making coffee and selling biscuits, sandwiches, etc.

To me it's a question of getting a proper espresso that's not cold, has a nice crema and good mouth feel made from fresh beans. I don't expect it to be a higher-being shot. A single should be about 30 ml or less in a demitasse and a double should be about that much in a small cappuccino cup. It shouldn't be watery. These are basic requirements of espresso and they're not being met in most of the places I visit here in Germany.

[CakeBoy]

I've had a beautiful espresso, delicious and properly served at a little stand-up shack somewhere on the outskirts of Rome. The barista was a 17-year old girl who certainly didn't grow up with a portafilter in her hand, but she had learned to make excellent coffee with an old Faema machine.

I mentioned this last summer and was told immediately that lots of people here on TMC could make as good as or better shots. That's missing the whole point. We are devoted to good coffee. We are on the border (or over the border) of being lunatics about coffee. With that kind of devotion we had better be able to do as well as or better than a young person who is just trying to earn some pocket money by making coffee and selling biscuits, sandwiches, etc.

Well said Bruce, I totally agree. We should applaud good espresso out and about, not simply compare it to the "norm" in TMC houses.

[Aadje]

I don't know how you mean that, substandard, Addje. I think that we have to be realistic about what is possible in a normal commercial setting.

That's my point. We're looking for the best commercial coffee, which is in fact below our standards. But the relief it brings to actually find a good cup is well worth the effort.

[gabriel]

A quick good news story (relatively speaking) to counter the earlier tales of horror. I stopped at Sandbach Services on the M6 (northbound) yesterday morning on my way to Manchester, as I do each week, for an espresso in the Costa branch there. By this stage of my journey the home-made espressos I had at 6.30 am (shudder) have worn off.

I was somewhat alarmed that the barista was a new girl who was clearly a bit flustered and evidently didn't know much about making espressos. The good news is that her colleague, who couldn't have been more than 20 or 21, explained the process to her very clearly, including the need (and reason for) warming the cups with a hot water flush. The end result was a surprisingly acceptable espresso by Costa standards.

This branch of Costa generally serves quite good espressos IMO, as does Stafford services, in marked contrast to the bilge dished up at the Costa at the M6 Toll services.

What a depressing life I lead that I'm so knowledgeable (or at any rate opinionated) about M6 Costa coffees.