Jonny782 wrote:This clearly is a complicated subject
Very much so, and there are those here who know far more than I, simply because they work in the trade. However, I trust them, because I have known them for a long time, and know them personally, and they would not wish for anybody to be taken advantage of, from grower to customer. I do appreciate that not everybody knows the people involved in this thread as well as I might, however, records on TMC speak for "themselves".
and I am pleased to hear about schemes to pay a fair price outside of FairTrade.
Have you actually looked at the prices involved in speciality coffee, which the vast majority of us buy? We are not talking about "fair" prices here, but
well beyond that and a
huge amount compared to FT! I personally don't feel the need to buy FT coffee, because I've yet to find something "drinkable" and I understand that I am doing far more to help growers than if I was to buy FT coffee!
It is important to air this type of subject on such an open forum, and for people to state where they get their information from, as I did when I started this off.
Fine. That is what TMC is for. However, I think you'll find there are quite a few a people who will take issue with the film you are citing. People who have both seen the film, have spoken to the directors, and have a personal and business connection to coffee growers. Thus, people who know far more than I, and whose opinions I respect far more than your average film director. This is not a new subject to either TMC or its members.
unlike Steve who seems to want a fight, and by the way is patronising and quick to be rude himself.
That's not really fair. Have you actually read or seen the care that Steve takes towards the growers that supply him with coffee? Given the amount of time he has been in the trade, I think you'll find it hard to find a roaster that has spent more time at origin than he has, especially in the UK. Take a look at his site, or his blog. Look at what he has to say about the time he has spent with producers. Look at the pictures of him with the people who supply him with coffee. Then tell me whether you think he is taking advantage of these people. If you think he is quick to respond, it is because he feels responsible for their welfare and their product. Why would he bother to spend so much time with them if he did not?
Some people might consider me to biased in this matter as Steve is a friend. I am lucky to consider him a friend. But, I do so not least because I respect his attitude to both those who supply him and those whom he supplies! His reputation in the business speaks for itself and does not need my simple opinion to defend it.
Establishing the evidence and discussing it is exactly what we should be doing in public debate.
True, but this is a debate that has been discussed here on numerous occasions over the past few years, so you'll have to forgive us if we don't want to repeat ourselves ad nauseam. You'll have to do the research yourself to find all that has been discussed in the past. To repeat it here, now, and each time, would be preaching to the choir, particularly when the information is here already on the forum, for those who are prepared to spend the time doing a search and reading the responses.
I'm no expert having only watched that film, which no doubt did not present the whole picture and led one to feel that it was widespread in the coffee growing world. The logic is that if buyers can get coffee in Ethiopia for $.001 a kilo, why do they go elsewhere and pay $3.19. Is the price in the film wrong? Has it changed? Answers please without jumping down my throat.
This is the crux of the issue. There are members here, who do not have to rely on films or the media for their information because they either work directly with growers,
or have a personal relationship with them. Would you rather believe the directors of a film who will probably move on to the next hot topic, or people who have been working honestly in the trade for a number of years and who are sincerely trying to produce/provide a fair product for a fair price? TMC exists as a forum for those who love coffee. Whilst we are more than happy to support charitable causes, that is not our aim. This does not mean that the two are exclusive. There are more than enough suppliers who care about how coffee is produced, the welfare of those who produce it and the tastes of those who consume it. To think otherwise is
grossly disrespectful to all involved!
How widespread do people think the abuse of fairtrade is?
Precisely what are you referring to when you talk about "abuse" of FairTrade?
I feel quite uneasy about attacks on "do-gooders". Well done to do-gooders! We could do with more of them, as long of course as they are well-informed and not cack-handed.
This in itself is a
huge topic and not entirely appropriate to TMC.
Suffice to say that seriously I doubt anybody here buys their coffee without a concern for both the quality of the product AND that of the producer! We are not adverse to "do-gooders" but nor are they our concern. Much has been undertaken under the auspices of "doing good" when the result has been the reverse. This has little to do with coffee.
I am drinking FT at the moment and actually it seems to taste alright. Is it a general view that it's all rubbish?
Personally, I am still waiting for somebody whose opinion I respect to state otherwise, and by this I am referring to professional cuppers. I would be more than happy to be proved wrong (and as a result to learn by my mistakes). Until then, I feel absolutely no qualms whatsoever in paying considerably more than FT rates for coffee which both I (and those whose opinions I respect) claim to be worthy of a speciality premium!