Esmeralda Special 2008

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Postby espressomattic » Sat May 24, 2008 6:06 am

Again just playing Devils advocate here...

I don't think those sort of prices should become the norm. OK, quality coffee demands a good price, exceptional coffee maybe slightly higher. I think that if this sort of price ever became the norm as you suggest, then coffee will become very quickly eletist and out of the reach of most people. Then I guess we would look at the masses only having available cheap rubbish which will put the scene back to where it has came from?

Hopefully the knock effect would be to enthuse other producers to set their sights higher to acheieve a greater price and so on and so forth That way everyone wins, which I guess is the whole point of these auctions.

Please don't think I am arguing for the sake of it, just trying another point of view.

You may be right, where does the desirability come from? Because frankly I haven't a clue!!??!!
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Postby Neo » Sat May 24, 2008 6:55 am

i say people desire to show off their wealth...no no, for better coffee :roll: :twisted:
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Postby Steve » Sat May 24, 2008 7:30 am

I agree with you that these prices shouldn't become the norm in the coffee world Matt, if they did my guess is we would all have to stop drinking coffee some time soon. But I lvoe the idea of paying these prices as a one off to reward the farmer.

One thing that saddens me is one person in this auction made as much as a whole cup of excellence. You only have to see the face of one farmer who wins to realize what it can do to there life. there prices are for the good of one producer but what about the rest in Panama coffee industry?
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Postby Neo » Sat May 24, 2008 7:45 am

That's very thoughtful, Steve. I wonder what else can we do, as consumers, to help the farmers?
I mean, perhaps greens importers can pay more to them, but there might also be a way for us to help?
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Postby espressomattic » Sat May 24, 2008 7:55 am

I guess you couldn't buy that sort of privalage Steve. It must be great to see these guys get a true reward for their efforts. I am in the process of explaining this to a friend who has only heard of FT. I think he will like what I have to say about CoE.

Good prices for good coffee should become the norm Steve and hopefully they won't be one off's. Maybe as things progress there will be little need for CoE as a promotional carriage and the coffee/farmers can speak for themselves and get the price that is rightlfully deserved for their efforts with out doing a competition.

I think Neo, for us at our end, we can just do what we can to promote CoE etc. My friend is seriously thinking about starting up a coffee business. If I can promote to him the quality of CoE and then that filters down to the public, maybe demand will grow from there? I know Supreme Coffee here in NZ are getting a larger CoE range and are seeing demand grow for this standard of coffee.

We can but try eh?
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Postby Neo » Sat May 24, 2008 8:12 am

The current problem of CoE is the size i think. It's not that easy for a cafe to source enough beans for daily operation. Perhaps we can push up the demand, but is it possible to keep the quality at a larger quantity supplied?
There are a lot of beans out there that is really great but at a fair price level. People might pick those over CoE because of the price. However I dont think CoE can be replaced by other beans because ,based on my vague memory, CoE beans are usually cleaner which is rarely found in cheaper lots with similar aromatic profile.
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Postby Steve » Sat May 24, 2008 8:21 am

I think that there have been some lots that are 3 tonnes or bigger (rare but they have been there) and enough to supply a supermarket chain in the UK with coffee, so the lot sizes I'm not so sure is an issue. 3 tonne for a cafe is a good size cafe.

COE is not about the headline price of the event. Its a reward for a small amount of coffee to the farmer. But what it does do is introduce buyers with sellers at a very direct and transparent level for a long term reward. The COE lot should be the beginning of a longer term relationship. Showing that the farmer can produce quality coffee.

And this is where the Panama auction (you see I can get it back on track) falls over for me. This isn't going to create the ripple effect for Panama producers and the longer term benefits.

Some one take this soap box away will you :)
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Postby espressomattic » Sat May 24, 2008 8:37 am

NO, it is all yours Steve, but I will shout abuse at you if you want! :P

I think you may have noted what I was trying to get at, but just didn't know how to put it...

Yes Esme has made that Farmer a mint, howver what good does it do for the rest of them? By this I mean that it is a very distinct and stand alone coffee. Will not people, being people not be drwan toweards other Panamanian Coffee because they 'Know' it will not reach the standard OR distinctness of Esme.

As an example, take JBM. How many other coffees originate from Jamaica? (I don't actually know the answer,but do you see what I am getting at?)

I Esme is an Ego coffee...it is big, bold and powerful and has the very real potential to totally overshadow all other Panamanian Coffee.

I was fortunate enough last year to cup a couple of the other lots in the competion and they were outstanding, easily up there with the best of the CoE. However do these evr get a big mention? Not that I am aware of because of the sheer power of Esme.

Now, I am not anti Esme at all as I have previously stated just offering a view.

Back to you Steve, you look better on a Soap Box!
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Postby kingseven » Sat May 24, 2008 12:00 pm

How is it this year? Is it still the sweet lemon tea/jasmine/floral overload it was in the past?

The implications of this farms success are fascinating and worrying at the same time.
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Postby Steve » Sat May 24, 2008 1:39 pm

I think were saying the same thing Matt for sure.

Jim the top lots are very similar to previous years, but I was amazed at the differences in the lots, and I think your point about how it will be marketed could potentially be very damaging for the Esmerelda brand. I share your excitement with your caution. I may do a cupping in a couple of weeks with the left over samples for those interested (time permitting).
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Postby Gouezeri » Sat May 24, 2008 9:02 pm

I'll be booking that train ticket then Steve, back in a week :wink: You in Mark? Bout time we christened that new bar area!

Great thread this by the way, some real food for thought.

One thought that crossed my mind is, what happens if Esme becomes the example that other farmers aspire to. What would this do to the market? Sure, I loved what I cupped, but like Steve, I don't think I'd want to drink it weekly, let alone daily. That's the thing about Esme, as Steve said, it is just so distinctive.

Interesting times, that's for sure.
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Postby espressomattic » Sat May 24, 2008 9:16 pm

I don't think that would be a bad thing Dom, if it became a benchmark. Setting standards high is not a bad thing. I think this would be good for the market as the market could not sustain paying such a high price for all coffees produced. Remember each coffee is different due to soil, weather etc, so no two will be the same. If they all aspire to the QUALITY of Esme, that as I have said, can only be a good thing.

Maybe then this is where this initial high price comes in as a positive, it gives a target to aim for and is a good incentive. Not that all coffees can acheive this price, but it can certainly raise the bar.

Sorry to have so many opinions on this, but it has got the old grey matter working.

Does anybody know how the Panamanian farmers feel about this at all?
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Postby Gouezeri » Sat May 24, 2008 11:08 pm

Ah, but I feel there are already coffees that offer the quality of Esme, and that Esme isn't just about the quality; it's all about the uniqueness, the cachet. My concern is that people might feel as though they have to create "ego coffees" as you put it, in order to succeed. Maybe I'm just being a little over cautious. Definitely and interesting discussion, and I don't think any of us have any real, definite answers. Maybe we should get Jim to do some of his predictions, he's good at that :wink:
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Postby Walter » Sun May 25, 2008 8:15 am

I think it's not the quality of this coffee which makes it so outstanding, but rather the particular - even peculiar - taste it has. The floral tones are almost overwhelming and for some strange reason it reminds me of an Earl Grey tea (though I don't like Earl Grey tea very much)...
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Postby Gouezeri » Sun May 25, 2008 8:47 am

Definitely Walter. For us it was full of jasmine tones.
Steve could you explain what you are referring to by "the differences in the lots"? Are you comparing this years with last or different coffees within the same cuppings?
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