Coffee and Wine Pairings

[Steve]

Been doing some work recently to try and pair wines with coffees, and wanted to pick TMC's brain for what you think works/ might work. Excuse my vagueness and my mass generalizations but so far my conclusions are

New World Chardonnay's (read California) with Yirgacheffes
California zinfidel's with Sumatra's indo's and yemen (big time)
Red Burgundy with Nicaraguan Limoncillo
Champagne (or sparkling) with Zambian
German Riesling with Brazil Cach

Any input gratefully received.

[Chrisweaver]

chardonnay and yirg sounds like a match in heaven Steve!!

Also I like the sound of the Cach and the Riesling, I'll have to put these to a test!!

[bluevalentine]

Steve, much as I love my wine and my coffee I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to drink them at one and the same time.
I think some coffees are very wine like but only if roasted lightly. The darker you roast, the less the similarity although you can make a case for mocha, particularly in some New World Shiraz.
Pale roasted La Manuela has something in it of the Gamay (Beaujolais) grape and I could certainly make a case for a kinship between CR Tarazzu and Pinotage (the same smoking rubber/warm tarmac thing).

I'll get the aroma wheels out tonight and have a play.

Mind you, I'm not as big into wine and food pairing as a lot of wine critics. I believe there are probably about 7 or 8 pairings made in heaven and about 4 or 5 made in hell - tomatoes and Pinot Gris/Grigio, asparagus and almost anything.

[bluevalentine]

Following up on that I'd be more interested in matching espresso to whisk(e)y as that seems a more likely, more appropriate pairing - what would you drink with heavily-oaked Macallan, say or honeyed Black Bush or astringent Laphroaig?

[Gouezeri]

I can definitely see where Val is coming from here, which is why I hadn't posted. It might help Steve, if we understood why you were looking to pair wines with coffees, or rather, is it simply a matter of comparison?

How about we start a different thread for pairings of stronger alcohols with coffee (I know that baz was looking for recommendations along this line recently)

[BazBean]

I got to agree....
Not drinking these days does not disable me from participation and when reading i immediately came too the same conclusion as Chris before i read his post and this made me think why?

they do sing and in the head they sound perfectly matched in what they give to the user ......but cant imagine what to do next as the thought of drinking in succession or even relatively soon after seems all wrong IHO,
As an exercise a bit like say the coffee wheel, it makes sense and i think i know were you coming from? Is that what you’re getting at?

Again like the boys I can most definitely see the hard liquor relationship....
Intensity of flavour and notes that just scream out to be together.

[Bombcup]

I can see what you're saying with regard to there being a slim chance of coffee and wine actually being drunk at the same time, but I think it is a valuable exercise.

Coffee and wine tasting are very similar, with many if the same techniques and vocabulary being used so it would make sense as an exercise to illustrate the complexities of coffee to people who are into wine but just finding their way in the world of coffee.

AFAIC the best thing to have with coffee is cigarettes. Match made in heaven. (will probably send me to heaven prematurely but I'll have enjoyed myself!)

[lukas]

WonderSteve, I quite smoking about half a year ago and the one thing I don't miss with my coffee is a cigarette (I was on about half a pack per day)
It took me a while, but enjoying and apprecianting a cup of coffee just feels better now than before.

[Bertie_Doe]

Looking at Steve's post, he doesn't suggest that they be drank together. Restaurant scenario : one would follow t'other.
.
.
.

AFAIC the best thing to have with coffee is cigarettes. Match made in heaven. (will probably send me to heaven prematurely but I'll have enjoyed myself!)

I would match Old Holborn with Malabar Gold - both nice and spicy.

BD

[Chrisweaver]

hmmm, smoking is so bad for taste buds though. I smoke very rarely but socially, and whilst drinking an espresso and smoking, it tastes of nothing!! such a shame!

[Bombcup]

That is a shame Chris, but if you percevere you will find that before long you will be able to smoke 20+ cigarettes in a day and enjoy them so much you'll have trouble living without them. Drinking espresso without smoking will begin to feel like something is missing from the experience. Your fingers will start to tremble, you will become agitated and generally unpleasant to be around. Given that, why the hell would anybody drink espresso without cigarettes?

[Steve]

On the smoking thing, one of the best cuppers I've ever met smoked 20 a day so I'm not so sure it hinders tastes (but I'm betting it doesn't help).

The pairing is more an exercise in getting those who may not appreciate that coffee has a set of unique and deleciate nuances, that can be compared to those of fine wine. Its also an exercise in challenging my taste buds as I try to understand wine on a better level than I currently do.

On the spirits idea, I don't think it takes too long for the liqueur to become the dominant flavour and is a little aggressive a taste for me to pick out to many ideas. I guess thats a one a night pairing it could be a long term project. Its a tough job

[bluevalentine]

Now I know where you're coming from, Steve, it's easier to post.

What I'd suggest is we construct a graph.
The horizontal axis (say, 1-10) is based on flavour styles ranges from acidic coffees, through fruity coffees to honeyed/caramel coffees.
The vertical axis (A-G) would be for impact. Not based on strength but with a soft>hard gradation. Imagine A as, to use wines as an example, a Chilean Merlot (soft, blowsy, upfront fuit, low in tannin); G as a young Medoc ('green', stalky, tannins unresolved).

So (and here I'm guessing) a La Manuela might be a 4C and an OBJ an 8D

Then if anyone wants to bring some Yqyem round I'll supply the Turquino Lavardo to match it with!

[bluevalentine]

Since writing the above I've put a bit of work in and constructed a system, viz:-

Flavour

1 Acidic
2 Winey
3 Fruity
4 Floral
5 Vegetal
6 Spicy
7 Caramelised
8 Chocolatey
9 Smoky
10 Earthy

Body Weight

A Light
B Medium
C Full
D Heavy
E Substantial

Mouthfeel

i Soft
ii Neutral
iii Firm
iv Tannic
v Bitter

Of course you could subdivide ad infinitum - 'Vegetal' could range from mown grass, through mint/balm, asparagus, green tea to wood-stemmy flavours and the same for the other categories but that's maybe taking it a bit far.
Steve, or anyone. If you would like to classify some coffees using the above code, I'll happily suggest some wine equivalents. Then you can tell me I'm talking shite, or whatever!

[BazBean]

Nice work bluey ...
i think i will steal that ..........sorry adopt that !
hope thats ok., its a nice simplistic yet informative construction for customers taking tentative steps while experiencing out COE and press pot range.
i am sure this will be an aid to expression as i do find its a bit overwhelming and people dont take part because they like us all dont wish to "look" foolish

. The coffee wheel looks execcelnt but can be off putting to people. this is perfect