"Budget" grinders? (and espresso machines for that

[ajwsheffo]

Hello all, 18 year old here who used to work in a gourmet coffee shop in sunny Sheffield. I am very interested in coffee, with eventual plans to own a "real" coffee shop, where baristas get proper training, rather than the pap we get from the chain shops (and depressingly some small businesses as well).
Anyway, tangent!

What I was wondering was the deal on the "budget" grinders that you can pick up from Amazons etc. for <£40. Are these anywhere near worth buying? I generally make coffee from a moka (another money issue) but using fresh ground beans would increase the enjoyment exponentially, so any budget ideas?

[lukas]

Welcome to TMC, Ajwsheffo! The only grinder in that pricerange I owned was a Gaggia MM, and that sucked ...

[bruceb]

I don't know about budget grinders on Amazon, but I would suggest looking at e-bay for a used (well-used):wink: commercial grinder. You may have to replace the burrs, but then you won't have to upgrade for a long time.

How about telling us your name, too.

[BazBean]

Howdy.
sounds like your fairly passionate about great coffee which is great but the unfortunate side of that is where the grinder is concerned its where you will have to spend a bit of cash if you want to produce espresso grade fine/regularty....... £100 upwards or cheaper via luck on ebay.

the alternate as an option is cheapy grinder and press pot alternative where grade of fine is not as important.

there are lots of great grinder postings in here via the search mode, but the majority will stress the importance of not trying to cut corners on cost on this area of coffee making. if the budget is less than generous at the moment maybe worth a wait untill the purse is filled a bit more?

welcome to the place where descisions become more complex than solutions are presented !!!!

[HughF]

The only one you might get away with using (that I can remember under £100) is the Dualit/Solis 166/Starbucks Barista at £50 - £60. It has a reputation of not lasting well when used for espresso's fine grinding but it's OK for other uses; I guess it depends whether the grind for moka pot is as fine as that for an espresso machine and I don't know that.

The used commercial grinder route would be the best if you find a good one but new burrs might add £20 or more, possibly enough to take it over your budget. They'll be very large too.

If you might get a few more quid inside a year, you could buy the Dualit then retire it to brewed coffee use (where it will do fine and last for years) in favour of something like an MC2 for c. £120 for moka pot (or later espresso) use.

A really good grinder (MC2 or above) will make good coffee easier to achieve and more consistently. You should definitely go for one well before you think about an espresso machine.

Cheers,

Hugh

[CakeBoy]

Hi ajw and welcome

[lukas]

Baz, I find the dust produced by cheaper grinders (read: Gaggia MM), together with too many big particles, make producing a french press'ed cup a pain. It always taste like ... too much fine and too much big particles to me ..

[chemistone]

Welcome AJW.

I've nothing new to say (as always). Agree with bruce and others that a ebay commercial grinder might be the best choice. You can get them very cheap if looks are not important for you. There build like a tank and almost impossible to break.

[ajwsheffo]

ever so rude of me not to introduce myself - the name is Alasdair. I'll soon be looking for tips for getting crema from a moka!

[bruceb]

ever so rude of me not to introduce myself - the name is Alasdair. I'll soon be looking for tips for getting crema from a moka!

Nothin' to it. Make your moka in a good espresso machine. Oh, and don't forget, you'll need a good grinder.

[GeorgeW]

Welcome to the forum Alisdair....ah..a good Scottish name.

I use my Moka pots a lot but no crema I'm afraid. Still, a few things. Smaller pots tend to make better coffee. even with the big pots the secret is to use a small heat source and remove before all the water is boiled away. That way the coffee will be without bitterness. As always, fresh beans are the answer.
I would second what people are saying about a commercial grinder on ebay. The Mazzer Super Jolly does come up quite often and rarely disappoint as many, including myself, will tell you.

[Keeka]

welcome man.
I was asking the same thing to get for my mother, while in Toronto, last feb. I asked a respected barista/cafe owner there - one of the best coffee bars in toronto - about cheap grinders NOT necessarily for espresso, and he had glowing reports for the Krups model right at about 40£

I've seen these at major dept. stores and on-line coffee websites in the UK. I'm about to get one for work, so I can't tell you for sure its good enough, but it is burr driven (rather than blade).

[keepitlikeasecret]

Hey Alisdair! Welcome aboard.

I just picked up a mazzer super jolly grinder on ebay for a very reasonable price which, as george has already said, will be an excellent choice in the longer term.

If cost is really tight, and you dont mind a bit of arm work, then Zassenhaus grinder mills are exceptional. If you can find one admittedly. Supposedly sweetmarias will have some in a couple of months if you can wait so long

http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.zas.shtml

[equazor]

Hi Alasdair, I know this is thread is getting old, but...

I've used stovetops for a a few years...
There isn't really a way of getting a lasting crema, unless you cheat (see below).
I lived in Italy for 3 years, and bialetti style stovetops are used by just about everybody. The received wisdom is that a smallish (about 3 cup) pot will give best results in terms of taste and it is important that it is seasoned... i.e. the more you use the pot the better your coffee will get. If you have a new one, it is common practice to buy a bag of cheap, preground coffee and run through the process about 10 times, not bothering to drink to coffee.
I've heard it said that stainless steel is better than aluminium... I have just got a 2 cup stainless steel bialetti. Still getting used to it.
The stovetop produces a lot less pressure than a proper espresso machine, and I think this is the reason that you can't get a lasting crema (something like it is the emuslion of the oils under the right pressure and at the right temperature being responsible for the creation of the crema). Any attempts to increase the internal pressure by clogging or using finer filters may end in an explosion of hot metal and coffee... not reccommended.
Bialetti has created a stovetop called the Brikka which they claim produces crema, but I can't say I've ever seen it used. It could be that it uses a valve or system such as you might have found in espresso machines a few years ago for creating a sort of pseudo crema (my gran gaggia came with a rubber disk call the sistema crema perfetta)
The 'cheat' way which I learned in Naples depends on your liking sugar in your mokapot coffee. Put enough sugar for all the coffee, plus half a teaspoon, in a wide glass. Dribble in the first coffee to come out of the pot so that it stains all the sugar (but no more). Whisk quickly with a teaspoon until it is foamy and pale. Add this to your coffee (in the cup) and you will get a smooth crema effect.

I am also looking for a low cost, but quality grinder. If you are going to stick with your stove-top you could probably get something cheaper than you would need for a countertop/bar style espresso machine.
I've been scouring ebay and have even looked at ebay Italy. There are some good prices there... How about a vintage grinder for moka pot style for about 40 pounds including postage? See the thread I highjacked...
http://www.toomuchcoffee.com/index.php? ... c&start=15

German ebay seems to have loads of good priced machines and grinders... I don't understand German at all really so not a good option for me...

If you come up with anything brilliant let us know. I'll do the same.

[psychomansam]

ooh, someone else in sheffield. Still around?