Crema Expectations - What's Dom thinking!?!

[Gouezeri]

*Wheels out soapbox*

Following on from Steve's interesting thread on what we expect when cupping and definition of defects, I thought I'd raise the issue of Single Origin again, with particular regard to crema. The last time this topic really arose, hairybob related how he had experienced someone claiming that SO "don't taste good at all" and more recent threads have criticsed how some SO may be lacking in crema. Steve's "defect" thread showed the importance of individual character in specific origins. However, I fear that we've created a problem for ourselves as crema has been touted as the ultimate guide to the perfect espresso (easier for people learning to appreciate visually, rather than basing judgement on actual flavours), which if anything shows how a "little knowledge" can be a dangerous thing. Personally, I admire Joey for taking the risk, and wish there were more like her, at the same time, it would seem as though it's treading a difficult path.

Have we got things back to front? Should people start with SO before turning to blends, or vice versa? Considering most chain's difficulty with producing consistent results with even the most tolerant of blends, I'd say there's little hope of getting a decent SO shot. But then look at what happens when a particularly trait of a SO is considered a defect (lack of crema). What percentage of members here drink SO regularly, and what are you looking for in the cup? Lots of issues here, no real central question that I'm looking for an answer to, just wondered what people's opinions/experiences were...
So, discuss (or just go off topic as you all tend to anyway )
D
I'll try and stop this thinking lark now and leave it up to Steve

[Steve]

SO shots are bad and crema is emulisfied oils, according to Mark Prince.

I'm firmly in the camp of SO shots being great, and blends being great too. I couldnt even start to think of how to create a blend without SO knowledge.

SO's can be complicated with great coffee.

Steve

PS I didnt think really that hurts too much, I paid someone to do it for me

[CakeBoy]

I drink SO and blends regularly and look for body and flavour. Not only have I found that some SO beans give considerably less crema than one might traditionally consider necessary for a "good" espresso, but the colour of the crema is not always a good indicator for me in SO either. That said, some SO beans have produced abundant crema when I least expected it. Either way, the taste is what I go by in deciding if I like it.

Of course all beans vary in crema depth and colour as they age and besed on the type of roast, and whereas in a blend, one bean type may offset another to keep the overall effect consistent, with a SO, all of the changes are clear to see. Some SO beans have produced masses of crema for me early in their life after roasting, only to undergo a marked change and produce little crema soon after.

Overall, I like to drink SO beans and blends. The only real factors I look for are enjoyment and new experiences

[kingseven]

Extraction and freshness play a far more significant role in crema than varietal and origin.

Robusta produces more crema due to a higher incidence of certain polysaccharides.
I never see one farms coffee producing a vastly different crema to another, assuming they are as fresh and haven't been aged in any way. (sometimes I see something distinctive in Monsooned crema).

I am happy to have this proved otherwise to me, but experience and my basic understanding of what and why crema is lead me to this conclusion.

[Gouezeri]

Thanks for making things more complicated Jim Ideal extraction and freshness are going to depend on and be changed according to the varietal and origin (and roast profile) though, as we all know some will perform better in the cup following a short period of rest whereas others require longer (and contrary to DaveC, in my experience crema does vary with roast age)... same for extraction, none of these elements are either evident or stable, making comparison hard and crema somewhat of a "straw man"

[Beanie]

I love SO espresso... some more than others and I also can't understand how one could get into blending without first having SO knowledge/experience/tasting.

I think it boils down to expectations. Ppl who believe that blends are the only way to go for espresso do so maybe because blends were their first experience OR they just have a different expectation for their espresso and have decided to close off the minds to anything else - kinda like blinders on a race horse.

There's a lot to expectations. It's kinda like having a blindfold on, putting a peg on your nose, and biting into an onion, but being told and therefore expecting an apple... but once the peg is released, you know somethings gone wrong with the apple, and then when the blindfold comes off, you get really disappointed and peeved off.

When I drink SO shots, I'm not expecting anything - like whether it's balanced, or bright or fruity or chocolatey. I'm just really happy to taste the different flavours and mouthfeel and what not with every one of them. It's that difference that excites me before, during and after the tasting. If I was looking for balance or fruitiness or whatever, then yeah, I can imagine being disappointed with some SO. Don't get me wrong, I don't like ALL SO's so obviously there's something I'm looking for but that relates to more of what I like rather than what I expect to find. Like Asian coffees... I hadn't found one I liked... until HB's Sumatra Lintong

Oh and the crema - yup, different colour, different depth, but really, I don't care much so long as it hasn't tell-tale underextracted/overextracted signs, look nice and tight and not big bubbly and that it tastes good and doesn't make me scrunch up my face or pucker.... my favourite-looking one is the one that comes from Harrar - dunno if this has something to do with it being my favourite SO

[CakeBoy]

I love SO espresso... some more than others and I also can't understand how one could get into blending without first having SO knowledge/experience/tasting.

I think it boils down to expectations. Ppl who believe that blends are the only way to go for espresso do so maybe because blends were their first experience OR they just have a different expectation for their espresso and have decided to close off the minds to anything else - kinda like blinders on a race horse.

Totally agree Beany on both counts and it's a shame some people restrict their enjoyment because of having a closed mind

[Gouezeri]

Gosh, were all getting Philosophical.

And then you have to go and simplify things... spoilsport

[GeorgeW]

When I began roasting I was advised by someone on here that I should stick to SOs until I felt I had a handle on these before moving on to blends. I do think that this was good advice.
Up to now all of my espressos have been SOs. I have now tried a fair range and while I have my favourites nearly all have been distinctive.
I suppose what I'm looking for is each SO to have its own individual characteristics and this then allows me to choose my personal favourites.
I do agree with Jim when he says that there is something quite special about the crema of the Monsooned.

[Joris]

I mostly drink SO, and am still in the process of trying out different beans. I don't look for anything in the cup and just let the taste sensation happen. I did find out that I like spicey and full-bodied, also chocolat is nice. I don't like sour but a bit of freshness in the cup (reminds of fruit) can be real nice as well. I tried Harrar looking for the "blueberry" taste but could not detect it (or maybe my definition of blueberry is not compatible).

I noticed that crema volume and color can differ not only per bean but also per batch roasted (probably my roasts are not very consistant ). Because I usually roast in the JIT way (just in time) so the batches are always started with and used up between the 4th and the 6th day after roasting I'll leave bean freshness out of the equation. The color of the crema usually is brown reddish but variations occur per bean in my experience.

I don't think an espresso with a thin crema has to be bad but in my case the visual aspect plays a large role in taste as well. When an espresso has a real thin or very blond crema subconciously I tend to focus more on what I'm missing in taste than what I am actually tasting. Strange enough it doesn't work the same the other way around. Even if the crema looks perfect I do not tend to be more forgiving on the taste.

just my 2ct worth....

[espressomattic]

I love my SO's and I personally think that unless you have a handle on them, then you can't really begin to look at blending your own. Notwithstanding that, I love blends inasmuch that the SO's brings their individual character to the cup. Saying that, I do adore adding a little Monsooned Robusta for that edge to an SO!

I have said it before, but I compare coffee to wine. You can get good blends like a Zinfandel/Barbera, each grape complements the other in a unique and individual way. However without a knowledge of the characteristics of each grape, the vinier has no base knowledge.

Of course this all applies if you enjoy home blending or doing it for a living.

Dave nailed it really....It all depends on what you like. If you like SO's, great, if you like blends...great...if you desire loads of crema...great...if you are not too bothered...great!!!!

Getting to the Crema thing, I like a good crema in my espresso, however I am not going to cry and bemoan my losses if I pull a shot that is not at least 50% crema and still tastes great!!!!

More Musings...

[Steve]

Dave C Said

the universal thing for me, whatever coffee I am drinking, whatever type of drink (americano, espresso, cappa), I personally feel extraction using an espresso machine is the best way of getting the best flavour out of them.

What about Vac pot/ filter/ french press !!!!!!

Steve

[blackice]

I love Guatemala SOs. Especially the casi cielo which is unfortunately only *$
I also enjoy regularly the Uganda Bugisu as SO espresso.

I'm a firm believer of what Steve said "I couldnt even start to think of how to create a blend without SO knowledge. "

I like blending things!

[zapty]

I have for a long time been a So drinker but have been blending more and more these last few years. I experiment also with roasting different beans together or roasting SO beans and blending afterwards. Espresso is great for a concentrated shot but some beans are just better in a vac pot.
Filter coffee is not my thing..
Crema is nice when you can get it in espresso but taste is the most important IMO. I do not spend time trying to create latte art either as for me it is not important enough.
I do believe the eye needs something to but a well made capucinno looks w/o latte art tasty enough.

[ivdp]

As a green bean seller, we notice that many of our clients start with a sample package to learn about coffees, than start enthusiastically blending and then turn back to singles origins again.
I have no percentage but we think that most of our clients stick to SO's after a while.

Ivo