Whats Steve thinking this week?

[kingseven]

With very fresh air cooled coffee I tend to get smoke for a couple of days (which cuts through in milk oddly).
Interestingly I've found technique can occaisonally trump grind even the freshest coffee can pour with wonderful crema and great flavours (though it is MUCH harder, as any crotchless pour will show you)

And I like this topic too - it is coming dangerously close to being full of useful information and sound opinion. Perhaps I should post a latte art picture or something....

[CakeBoy]

I wonder if people associate bitterness with strength because of the reliance on instant coffee, which of course becomes more and more bitter as the strength is increased by further teaspoons of disgusting coffee solids .

Body for me is associated with the viscosity or thickness of the liquid. I (again incorrectly) associate big heavy tasting coffees with depth of flavour.

Listening to you guys, I am so way out

[CakeBoy]

With very fresh air cooled coffee I tend to get smoke for a couple of days (which cuts through in milk oddly).

Yes, that is it Jim! Sometimes, I can get smoke dragging across my tonge and roof of the mouth from a capp but does not appear so readily in an espresso from the same beans. I have it a lot from young El Quebradon roasts taken as a SO.

And I like this topic too - it is coming dangerously close to being full of useful information and sound opinion. Perhaps I should post a latte art picture or something....

Or a link to some pre-ground coffee roasted 20 years ago and stored in a sauna

[kingseven]

Viscosity is technically different to body, as well as to mouthfeel. It is very confusing, things like shear, density, lipid fraction, large molecules of bits and pieces all make evaluating simple the feel of espresso in your mouth a confusing but delightful affair.

I have an interesting paper on body/mouthfeel with relevance to shot length and other stuff. It was published by ASIC. I'd love to go to their next colloquium, but the Nordic barista cup is that month too and that would mean not much work, but a lot of learning!

[CakeBoy]

Very confusing for me. Is the paper online Jim? If I can understand it, I would be interested to have a glance because of the differences I have noticed in the mouth between very tight ristrettos and longer versions of expresso. Being very sad, I am constantly striving for a particular feel on the tongue from a short ristretto. I really should lie down or at least do something non-coffee related for an hour or two.

[Bertie_Doe]

Earlier, I mentioned if there was a coffee taste-terminology site. I did a Google and got this
http://www.lucidcafe.com/glossary.html is this a good source?
Apologies if it's been mentioned before, but I couldna find it via TMC search.
QC

[Steve]

Hmm I see a project there to make something similar but with more focus on Europe and on the Home User.

Ohhh no more work

I'm liking this post too, thanks guys I was thinking this was something TMC needed and you have all stepped up to the plate. Its cool to talk about machines and stuff but nice to occasionally talk about the science.

Steve

[Gouezeri]

Hmm I see a project there to make something similar but with more focus on Europe and on the Home User.

Took the words right out of my mouth... literally

Ohhh no more work Smile

You're telling me!

[CakeBoy]

Hmm I see a project there to make something similar but with more focus on Europe and on the Home User.

Ohhh no more work

I'm liking this post too, thanks guys I was thinking this was something TMC needed and you have all stepped up to the plate. Its cool to talk about machines and stuff but nice to occasionally talk about the science.

Steve

It's nice to have a meaty topic on the go again at last ... thank you for starting it.

Whaddya mean too much work ..... anyone would think you had a busy roastery to run . Would be great if you did manage to get something organised for us home enthusiasts. Very useful indeed, though very time consuming for you and therefore probably logistically impossible?

[blackice]

Body relates to the whole feeling of the coffee taste staying in your mouth. The weight of the coffee on the tongue (greek-english)

When I want to describe body I frequently compare full body to full fat milk (or half and half) and mild body to non-fat milk. Sumatra vs a light mexico coffee

For acidity which is as Jim said the acid/astrigent feeling at the sides and tip of the tongue, I sometimes tell customers to taste a sumatra and then a kenya! It can also be compared to lemonade vs water.

For aroma it has to do with your own experiences: it can bring blueberries, wine, flowers, herbs, chocolade, peanuts, walnuts, cinnamon, mud . Try a brazil (rio) vs a bugisu or a yirgacheffe or a yemen coffee

Taste is the combination of those.
IMHO:
chocolate: yemen, uganda bugisu, (harrar)
spicies: monsooned, indonesian coffees, (guatemala antigua), uganda drugar
wine: yemen, bugisu
earth: sumatra, sulawesi, (harrar), uganda drugar, india
blueberries: harrar
sweetness: a good brazil
flowers: kenya, yirgacheffe
lemon: sidamo
balance-maybe boring: colombia

[Steve]

Blackice said

balance-maybe boring: Colombia

I wish you were closer than Greece, so we could spend an afternoon showing you this isn't true. I believed this a few months ago, but Colombia can be awesome, truly great coffee.

[espressomattic]

Blackice said

balance-maybe boring: Colombia

I wish you were closer than Greece, so we could spend an afternoon showing you this isn't true. I believed this a few months ago, but Colombia can be awesome, truly great coffee.

Manuela is truly great!!!

Anyway my threepence on this...for what it is worth.

Acidity/Brightness are very similar, though I feel acidityis more of a sharpness than bright. The screen dried Chach was to me, Bright, very clear.

Earthy - Hmmm, I would say, again IMO, this refers to a 'dirty' tasting cup. Not in a bad way, just very, well, earthy!!

Fruity - I think this could refer to a more subtle acidty/brightness. Where the taste is more subtle and rounded than sharp and lip smacking...

Bitter - Well I think all coffees are bitter - However I do not personally think bitter is a good thing. A lot of shop bought coffee is 'Bitter'. Yes it should have that 'Bitterness' however it should also have a naturel sweetness.

Well that is my little jaunt for tonight....

[jameso]

To what extent is body affected by brew method, and to what extent by choice of bean?

[ivdp]

Colombians are boringly similar - Colombians are great
Both statements are true of course, every country can produce outtstanding coffees And every country is probably producing outstanding coffee. You just know where to find them . . .
The other side of the medal is also trye:
An outstanding coffee area like the Ethiopian Yrgacheffe, does not necessarily produce 100% outstanding coffee.
If you know 1 Yrg you don't know them all . . .

If you taste a cup from the cup of excellence winner, don't expect to taste the same quality from other coffee's coming from the same area.
A winner can only be a winner beacuse he is so much better than the majority.

Ivo
www.ongebrand.nl

[Steve]

every country is probably producing outstanding coffee. You just know where to find them . . .

Certainly very true.

If you taste a cup from the cup of excellence winner, don't expect to taste the same quality from other coffee's coming from the same area.

Not so true, I've tasted great colombian that just didnt get entered into the Cup of Excellence, as they could fetch a good price anyway (i'm thinking some of the relationship coffee's I've tasted and sold). Also as we have discusssed one mans fruit bowl is another mans ferment, some coffee's sell to certain markets, so may not make the grade on a US biased jury.

Steve