Planned Article

Roasters and roasting

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Planned Article

Postby phil » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:55 pm

I'm coming clean about this so you can hold me to it...

I'm going to write an article (working title "The Hottop Experience") about the ups and downs of roasting with a Hottop. I've had one since February (for those who didn't know, I have the first production Hottop in the UK (for sure) and almost certainly Europe).

It won't be ready for a couple of weeks, or if it is I'll be adding a later chapter, as I'm waiting for delivery of my Extech EA15 datalogging thermometer so I can publish profile curves.

It will include comments on my experiences with the old and new chips, filters, voltage variation (aka "Fighting the Programming"), temperature control and anything else (both positive and negative) I can think of.

This will be the article that so-and-so Mark Prince (he of the vested interest) would not let me write! :x
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Postby HughF » Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:16 pm

Phil : Don't beat around the bush, say what you feel!

Should be a very interesting article, thanks for writing it.

I fancy the HW I-Roast myself (if it survives the first consumer testing OK) - it should enable me to do a slower roast for more body without fiddling with it until the end of the roast. I think the I-Roast programmable three-stage profile should do me OK - I don't want to be as OCD-affected as some who stand over their FR+s and tweak the fan or the heat every 5 seconds. How do you repeat a manual profile that's so complex?

I'd be a bit worried about the amount of smoke with the Hottop in our kitchen - don't want to have six beloved - and very expensive - cats coughing! Also, it may well be very good value but it's still a lot of money for me...

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 espresso machine. HotTop KN8828P roaster. Chemex manual drip for most brewed coffee plus cafetieres and eSantos.
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Postby phil » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:33 am

HughF wrote:I'd be a bit worried about the amount of smoke with the Hottop in our kitchen

The Hottop's smoke filtration is most effective. I would guess you'll have less smoke and it'll be less obnoxious than with a HWP, notwithstanding the larger batch size (the only plausible reason for a greater quantity of smoke).
HughF wrote:I fancy the HW I-Roast myself

Well let's hope it makes it to actual production sometime this century. Personally, I can't get over the idea that it (or at least its very early announcement) is a deliberate "spoiler" to stop people buying Hottops.
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Postby DrZeus » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:52 am

The last I read, they were getting the I-Roast out "in time for the holidays." Well, for Americans the "holidays" (not meaning vacation, as it does to the Brits) is coming quite close -- Thanksgiving is about 3 weeks away! The day after Thanksgiving is always the busiest American shopping day of the year -- it's be in their best interest to get it out before then.
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Postby HughF » Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:08 am

phil wrote:The Hottop's smoke filtration is most effective. I would guess you'll have less smoke and it'll be less obnoxious than with a HWP, notwithstanding the larger batch size (the only plausible reason for a greater quantity of smoke).
HughF wrote:I fancy the HW I-Roast myself

Well let's hope it makes it to actual production sometime this century. Personally, I can't get over the idea that it (or at least its very early announcement) is a deliberate "spoiler" to stop people buying Hottops.

Thanks for the info. Smoke isn't too bad with the HWP as I don't go into second crack very far even for espresso blends. Once heating ends, I just put the small "desk" type fan on full, open the back kitchen door and stand in it to prevent several cats heading for the great outdoors! Roasts for cafetiere make a nice smell through the whole house so I don't bother ventilating for those.

Personally, I don't really feel that the I-Roast was a spoiler (assuming it's out before Christmas). However good the Hottop is, I'm not sure that HW worry about it as much as Z&D or FR - mainly due to its more limited distribution and serious price.

By the time the first (beta-test!) I-Roast buyers have used it in the USA for a few months, I hope it will be available in 230V for Europe. I just fear the mark-up which was a hefty "dollar for pound" on the HWP anywhere I looked 3 years ago in the UK. Even allowing for 17.5% VAT that's a lot, particularly if will be applied to the new I-Roast on which I believe HW will have worked extremely hard to reduce warranty problems.

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 espresso machine. HotTop KN8828P roaster. Chemex manual drip for most brewed coffee plus cafetieres and eSantos.
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Postby phil » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:46 am

Mmmm, well I know some potential Hottop buyers who are now playing "wait and see" over the I-Roast.

Also, if the mark up is too serious it'll be in Hottop territory anyway.
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Postby phil » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:50 am

I do have to say though that this conversation is not doing a lot for my motivation to write the article ....
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Postby Raf » Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:27 pm

I'm still looking at the HT, Phil, so I'm very curious about it.
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

La Spaziale S1, Vibiemme Domobar (retd), Mazzer Mini Electronic, Behmor 1600 230V
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Postby HughF » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:46 pm

phil wrote:I do have to say though that this conversation is not doing a lot for my motivation to write the article ....


Sorry Phil! Maybe I've been brainwashed by years of using my HWP....!

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 espresso machine. HotTop KN8828P roaster. Chemex manual drip for most brewed coffee plus cafetieres and eSantos.
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Postby Steve » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:35 pm

I still think the hottop looks the better machine from what i've seen (stats and comments on the web).

I'd love to read the artical though
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Postby HughF » Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:54 pm

I agree with you - I'd love a Hottop if it sold for the same price as the I-Roast, I'm sorry that they're not the same price.
I'd like to hear second crack more easily than I can from the HWP for a start and I don't think the I-Roast will be quieter than my HWP.

If the I-Roast can fake the more gradual temperature profile of a slower drum roaster such as the Hottop reasonably well I would settle for that, certainly until my skills elsewhere improved to the extent that the I-Roast became the weak link. If it can't fake a slower profile effectively (I'm dying to see the first test results for the I-Roast, especially using custom roast profiles) then that's different. I'd like the extra body and lower acidity that I would expect a slower roast to give me.

Right now, I think my use of the espresso machine is the weak link for espresso rather than the HWP and I'm pretty happy with results from my cafetiere. I won't be buying a new roaster for the next few months at least, even if work gets more predictable. Even in coffee hardware, the Gaggia Carezza causes me more problems (as I see it) than my HWP even if curing them is more expensive.

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 espresso machine. HotTop KN8828P roaster. Chemex manual drip for most brewed coffee plus cafetieres and eSantos.
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