Roaster possibilities?

[Beanie]

Hi everyone

Even though I'm still hard at practicing my shots, I've been considering home roasting (especially after reading the CoE's desc. for lots 1, 6 & 8 for the next auction). Also, would like to try Josuma's Malabar Gold - but currently only available as green from UK

I've read up on the usual suspects but capacity is either too small or it's big enough but needs experience & creates too much smoke (like the Hottop?). Do you know of other roasters that may fit my preferences:

weekly usage: 320g reg. beans & 80-120g decaf beans

smoke-free enough for in-house use

so super easy to use that I'd be up and running 5 minutes after reading the manual

no further tinkering / modifications required

prefer to roast 1 day/wk and maybe even once per bean type (pushing it, aren't I?)

physical size is a current consideration although hopefully in early spring, house extension will be built and kitchen will triple-quadruple in size

With regards to cost, I'm open on that for now although not exactly "money is no object" despite my devout belief that I'm going to hit the next jackpot!!

Thanks in advance for your advice
Marcy

P.S. Any experience with the DIGIROSTO PRO-1500 from www.cafferosto.com? It's probably too big to fit in this kitchen... but just wondering. Not very pretty but nice capacity range & features. Wondering about actual quality.[/list]

[simonp]

I've read up on the usual suspects but capacity is either too small or it's big enough but needs experience & creates too much smoke (like the Hottop?)

The Hottop needs no more experience than any other roaster, in fact I would say less. As for smoke, it is one of the few roasters to have a smoke filter. I would say from your description that it fits the bill perfectly, you would only need to roast 3 times in 2 weeks.

[phil]

creates too much smoke (like the Hottop?).

:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

There does seem to be a group of people who believe that, despite its effective smoke filtering, the Hottop somehow magically manages to wring more smoke out of a weight of beans at a particular roast. Quite how they imagine it does this is beyond me.

Forgive me coming on like a miserable old curmudgeon Marcy, but I've heard this too often for it to be funny. You roast coffee, you get smoke. You roast twice as much coffee, you get twice as much smoke.

THEN it travels through a smoke filter if you've got a Hottop, or you try and vent it somewhere if you haven't. If you roast dark enough, you'll need to vent it anyway. It does vary from coffee to coffee as well.

Simon's quite right - the Hottop is very easy to use. Roasting isn't hard.

<Blows own trumpet>Read my article on the Hottop if you haven't already.</blows own trumpet>

I would say for those volumes the Hottop would be an excellent but by no means the only choice. The I-Roast will be available in European spec form from a couple of sources in the next month or two.

[tisri]

The Hottop is about as easy to use as it gets. As Phil says, a given volume of coffee roasted to a given level will produce a given amount of smoke. The only reason you get more smoke from a Hottop than from an Imex is because it's roasting more coffee at once.

If you like dark roasts you'll get more smoke than from a light roast (I seem to have become the resident expert on dark roasts ) My kitchen is about 15x11 feet (very roughly 5x4 metres) and when I'm roasting at my darkest level (well into second crack for a very dark espresso blend) I still do nothing more than open the back door and turn on a single domestic fan. I get smoke in the kitchen for a while but within a couple of minutes it blows away. The Hottop is about 10 feet from the door, diagonally. If you roast much darker than I just described you'll turn the beans to charcoal so I'm generating about as much smoke as it's possible to generate from the Hottop, short of setting it on fire.

Using the Hottop is as simple as this:

1. Press Start
2. Select roast level
3. Press Start
4. Wait for loud beep, add beans
5. Watch beans to make sure you're happy with the roast
6. (optional) Press Plus to extend the roast time, or Eject to terminate the roast
7. Wait for Hottop to dump and cool beans in external tray
8. Pour beans into container for storage.

Aside from an abortive foray into roasting with an Imex (I had two bad units so gave up) the Hottop is the only thing I've ever roasted with. If you can find a roaster that does a better job than the Hottop and is easier to use I expect a lot of people here would like to know about it!

[Beanie]

simonp and tisri - thanks also for reinforcing it's ease of use.
phil - my apologies . Had I known I was going to turn you into a miserable old curmudgeon (<-- my first time using this word in a sentence or rather, ever even - thanks phil ), I would have put more thought into the post and not let my fingers do the talking by themselves. I did read your thorough article and those of the links attached to it. This is where I get the visions of smoke.

Smoke issue:
In my imagination, it's as if 2 people are smoking 2 narghiles with "capuccino" tobacco. Not that I've ever tried the cappucino version. Anyway, perhaps I should have asked (instead of questioning its smokiness) if someone would kindly post a picture of just how much smoke there is at the darker roasts? I understand that quantity & level of roast is directly related to the volume of smoke emitted; however, I was hoping for a system that would eliminate those particles. Though my tastebuds prefer Full City, the bf prefers darker.

Ease of use:
I got the impression from the many articles that it is fairly easy to operate but perhaps I should have commented on experience level. I interpreted that experience was required, despite ease of use, because of Tom Owen's comment on needing to "to understand the sights, sounds and smells of the coffee roasting process". Phil, I know this was your first real machine but your expertise with it makes it's hard to imagine that you were ever anywhere near the level of absolute newbiness as me. I mean, what if I can't hear the 1st crack let alone the 2nd? If you stop it at exactly the colour you want; does it get darker before it completely cools? Like pasta won't remain al dente if you don't cool it down properly?

Pro 1500
I like this A LOT even though it's not as pretty as all the others. The only "review" I've seen on it is from Tom Owen http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.cafferostoPRO1500.shtml. It's big but perhaps I'll use it in the "zolder" (sorry, forgot English word again but it's the very top floor of a house. It's way expensive for home use, so I was hoping someone knew of a machine that was somewhere between the Hottop and the Pro 1500. Unless I can offset the cost by selling some roasted beans at the weekly market... but honestly, who would want to buy from a newbie?

Sorry for the long-windedness
M

[simonp]

I interpreted that experience was required, despite ease of use, because of Tom Owen's comment on needing to "to understand the sights, sounds and smells of the coffee roasting process".

This is the case for ANY roaster really, it's just something you pick up by research, and practice, IMHO.

[phil]

Just a quick reply Marcy 'cos I'm supposed to be doing something else - but I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you!

If you don't like smoke you need either to be able to vent it or get rid of it some other way. The Hottop's filter reduces the offensiveness of roasting smoke by removing most of the more irritating particulates. However smoke there will still be. Not a huge amount though. Ignore it, vent it or don't roast at all are your only options IMO.

Ease of use: you're only going to find out how easy this is by trying it. I took the risk myself and was very, very pleased I did. Your roasting will improve with experience, but nonetheless (especially with guidance) your efforts should always be acceptable. Don't roast to a colour though. Not unless you know the bean in question very well anyway.

I don't know of anything between the Hottop and the Pro 1500. The latter is a small shop roaster. As I recall a year or so back people were saying it was dreadful. However I met the new UK importer a month or two back and he was telling me it's now a very, very good machine. Expensive though. Personally for that sort of money I'd be looking for something like a second-hand pro roaster like an Ambex YM2. They come up occasionally, but they're not the sort of thing you'd use in a city apartment. I fancy one but I don't think Allyson would let me!

Re cooling, you tend to stop it at the stage you want and the roaster should start rapidly cooling the beans straight away, which prevents the roast going much further. Pretty much like quenching your pasta in cool water to prevent over cooking.

If you want to roast for yourself and your partner, IMO today's off-the-shelf choices are the I-Roast and the Hottop (oh and I suppose the Alp, but I tend not to take that too seriously). The Pro 1500 is an interesting choice but not really cost-justifiable for the domestic user. Other than quantity, what does it do that a cheaper option doesn't?

My expertise? Well thank you very much. Perhaps I just talk a good game!

[tisri]

I got the impression from the many articles that it is fairly easy to operate but perhaps I should have commented on experience level. I interpreted that experience was required, despite ease of use, because of Tom Owen's comment on needing to "to understand the sights, sounds and smells of the coffee roasting process".

Seriously, virtually no experience is required. I made a few abortive attempts to roast in a defective Imex, then read Kenneth David's "Home Coffee Roasting" book, and my first roast from the Hottop was entirely successful. Understanding "the sights, sounds and smells" means you need to know about first crack and second crack and know that the beans start out green and then go yellow, golden, brown, black in that order.

How much simpler could it be?

[pault]

Ha, ha,

on a slightly different topic - a while back I questioned the number of roasts per filter on the Hottop - I said I thought I'd read somewhere it did 20 and Phil said higher.

I'm not saying Phil's wrong - but just saw the 20 figure on the Sweet Maria site - like I say - happy to trust Phil but glad I'm not imagining things, I did see it somewhere!!

[phil]

I'm quoting the manual old son. In fact I have several copies in my possession and they all say the same. Also, I get that many roasts out of mine, and have been doing (plus or minus the odd one or two roasts) for nearly two years now.

Now Tom Owen is one of the people in the industry I trust pretty implicitly, but maybe he's made a typo. I can't imagine he's trying to sell more filters - he's far, far too straight.

Or then again maybe he's got lots of customers like tisri

PS Pick a new theme for "winding up Phil time"!

[stevenzaat]

Marcy.

I would also like to adress that the Hottop is a very easy to use machine. I am really a newbie and ownes the Hottop for almost three months, but the Hottop is very easy in use Roasting is much easier than producing the God shot at an espresso machine. The operation is very consistent and you can operate it just by listening to the production process in relation with the time. The 1st crack is easy to hear (you can not miss it!). The second crack is less easy, but I think at easiest at a Hottop, because the Hottop makes no noisy.

I see that you are living in NL, so you could see mine at work and you couls also visit Ivo (www.ongebrand.nl) to see the I-Roast at work. I think that is the easiest way to investigate which machine you prefer. Looking at your coffee consumption I do not see any reason to upgrade directly to a pro-machine. If you have any furhter questions, you could also phone me. Please send me a pm if you want to see the Hottop in operation or just discuss the possibilites on phone.

Best regards,

Steven

[Steve]

I think the filters should be changed every roast, Roll up roll up get your filters here

[tisri]

I think the filters should be changed every roast, Roll up roll up get your filters here

Don't laugh Steve, the way some of us roast that's not too far from the truth

[HughF]

I think the filters should be changed every roast, Roll up roll up get your filters here

Oh, you can CHANGE the filter? Now you tell me. So that's why there was a second one in the box!

(just joking - errmm, well maybe...)

Cheers,

Hugh

[Beanie]

Thanks everyone for all the info and reassurances. I'm so sorry for not responding sooner. Been very ill lately. I swear I've never been sooooo sick before... could've probably played a zombie in some B movie.

It seems like I've crossed off the Hottop from my list a little too soon. I can hardly wait to see a live demo. So stevenzaat, I just may take you up on your offer in the new year. I'm sure this month is just super busy for you anyway, what with Sinterklaas this wknd already!

In the meantime, I'll put some roasting "Bibles" on my Xmas wish list.

Thanks again