Ooops... it seems the hand ordered a Behmor.

Roasters and roasting

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Postby zix » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:29 pm

Well, I'm also very excited about roasting, but a bit hesitant to always write about it.

Bruce, since I write here every other year or so, I trust you didn't mean that you would like to see even less of my scribblings? I have a hard time seeing how that could be possible anyways... ;)

By the way, I started my first fire in the Behmor the other day. A very soft bean that... sort of got finished way too early while I was busy with a customer :oops:

However, I quickly threw the black beans out through nearest window and put another roast through it again, and it seemed to work OK. Unharmed, phew, *wiping sweat from brow*.
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Postby bruceb » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:00 pm

For heaven's sakes no! I didn't mean you, I meant me. I'm not very good at describing flavours and tastes and besides, I must have written that some time ago.

Glad you didn't have to call the fire brigade. I have been fortunate enough not to yet have had a fire in a roaster. I came very close to it a couple of times. I try to never let anything interfere when I'm roasting. Shifting attention to something else is deadly.
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I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby zix » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:49 pm

Ahhh, thanks Bruce, I'll try to keep the posting rate up to my usual level then ;) Ego boosted thanksverymuch!

Yep, never leave it unattended. Most of all, don't go to another room and close the door. When you feel the smell of a dark roast all the way to that other room, the expression "too late" doesn't quite cover the situation.
Well - it was... enlightening.
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Postby Richard » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:00 pm

Hello again everyone.

I haven't been posting because I never seem to have anything to share other than a dodgy sense of humour that often get's me into trouble, I have been reading on a regular basis.

Recently, I keep reading all the news about roasting because i'm stuck, stuck in rut of below average taste from my coffee to the extent I can buy better from supermarkets.

Still using the same beans, Brazil pre-blended espresso-perfetio and some La-Fany bourbon for occasional change. Both beans taste different to how they used to when I first arrived in coffee-drinking-Nirvana.

I'm still using a hot-air gun into a large colander, the colander sits inside another stainless steel bowl and thats where the chaff is collected. I always thought this simple system worked well providing i'm not disturbed and I have been using the method for some time now.

So, whats happened ? I remember reading a thread where this doldrum happened to other enthusiasts who were carefully encouraged and counselled though I don't remember if it was to do with beans changing, the palate changing or the roasting technique.
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Postby Bombcup » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:26 pm

Try some new beans! You're bound to get jaded drinking the same coffee all the time. The coffees you mention are great but they're both at the smooth end of the scale. Why not try some african coffees, some natural processed coffees, some honey process Costa Ricas... There's a whole world of exciting flavours to perk up your palate.

Also, you say you're still drinking those two coffees; does that mean you're using the same green you've had for a while, or are you repeatedly buying the same coffee? If the former then your green may well have got a bit old and lost its sparkle. You'd typically be finding papery, woody, cerealy or just generally flat flavours if this is the case.
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Postby bruceb » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:55 pm

I recently had the coffee doldrums and then it occurred to me that I have been roasting on the lower end of the scale, i.e. just to the end of first crack. I tried a few Brazilian and Colombian beans well into second crack and was delighted with the wonderful roast flavours. In addition to trying different beans you might also try different roasts. Good luck and let us know how you do.
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Postby Richard » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 am

Bombcup wrote:Also, you say you're still drinking those two coffees; does that mean you're using the same green you've had for a while, or are you repeatedly buying the same coffee?


I usually buy 8/10 kilos twice a year and I have never been sure about green beans length of service.

Just to get this back onto the roasting topic I tried a pan roast over a gas flame instead of my usual hot-air method, the only difference I tasted was because of the irregular roast. I got pretty good with a hot air gun. The reason I latched onto this thread was I always hungered for a roasting machine.

I'm happy to buy more beans though that might mean my existing greens go off. I thought I read somewhere on this forum that greens are OK for well over 12 months. Years even.

Behmor Eh, how are the beans roasted in this machine, radiant heat ? Hot air ?

I can feel my hand moving the mouse to, buy-it-now. :(
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Postby bruceb » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:21 pm

Greens do last for a year or longer if they are stored dry and in the dark. But buying two varieties twice a year is bound to leave one yearning for some other tastes sooner or later. I think it makes sense to buy a couple of kilos and then try something else. I vary my roasts between South America, middle America, Indonesia, Africa regularly. Each of those regions has its special high spots, but they are all different so I never get bored with them.

If you want to try something really different get a kilo of monsooned Malabar. You may not like it for a longer time, but it sure will surprise you with unusual flavours.
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby zix » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:28 pm

Yeh, I like to change continents too. And I like to feel the bean! One of my roasting all time high-lights was that Liberica I got from sweetmarias. Ahhh... to heeeat, to smell, to crack you! To cool, to sift, to griiind you! (sorry, that was probably much too Swedish a reference for anyone here, you'll have to look up Björn Skifs AND NOT Hooked on a feeling)

Anyway... half of the fun is to try a different bean.
One of my best espressos ever was with an extremely fresh Old Java single, if you believe me... I just had to see if it was possible to get a good cup out of it. And it was!
We had a couple visiting that night, I managed to hit the sweet spot after a few tries... The guy was flying high on that Java, saying it was the best cup he'd ever had, anywhere. Don't know what it was with that particular batch, but it was... very unexpectedly a great single coffee - for the first two days. Then it faded, and I blended it with Colombians or something like that.
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Postby Richard » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:34 pm

bruceb wrote:If you want to try something really different get a kilo of monsooned Malabar. You may not like it for a longer time, but it sure will surprise you with unusual flavours.


:D Oh-yes, I tried Monsoon Malabar. When I first joined this forum I bought two kilos and what a surprising taste that drifted into old-runbber-tyres on the odd occasion.

Maybe I need to do a subscription arrangement with Steve though then i'll accuse myself of being a quitter in the face of adversity.

Getting back to roasting methods, i've been using a hot air gun ever since I joined this forum. After trying different methods I arrived at a simple and effective balanced roast though if you asked me about time and temperature I wouldn't have a clue because the whole roast is hands-on together with all my remaining senses. The only thing I did notice is there is rarely a noticeable pause between first and second crack whichever beans I ever used.
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Postby Bombcup » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:27 pm

I always had best results with a hot air gun of all the improvised methods.

The period between first and second crack is an important one for the development of the acidity. If the coffee is crackling hard right into 2nd try to reduce the heat a little when first crack gets fully established. If you have a high and low setting on the gun then flick it into low, or just raise the gun a bit higher above the bean pile. You should get more defined, softer fruit flavours.
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Postby Richard » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:58 am

Bombcup wrote:I always had best results with a hot air gun of all the improvised methods.



Thanks for the hint on first and second crack, when I first joined the forum I had so much help on just about everything. When I went to hot-air roasting I neglected to share the process with others so ended up going, 'My-way'. The only criteria I ever had was a uniform roast which I found easier to do with a larger batch.

Ever since the Behmor became available i've drooled after this machine though the method I use has been fine. I always roast outside on suitable days, during winter, suitable days don't always happen when i'm running out so I use the garage with all the windows open and a fan running but the garage still stinks for days after. Presumably the same goes if you use this type of machine unless you use kitchen extraction. Roasting in the house is a no-go area for me.
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Postby zix » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:44 am

Outside is better with a hot air roaster, I agree. The Behmor doesn't use hot air and has a controlled air flow (hot air/smoke is led through extra ceramic heaters on the back), and should work well standing on the stove top, right under the air outlet/fan.
Dark roasts in the Behmor will generate smoke, but in total, I would say it is nowhere near the amounts of smoke generated with the heat gun / bowl method. As long as you have a good air outlet which leads the smoke away and you clean out the Behmor regularly, I say your wife should let you roast in the kitchen.
Last edited by zix on Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Richard » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:27 am

So, the Behmor uses radiant heat, presumably the beans are in a cage that is agitated or rolled and the heaters are on the other side of the cage ?

Interesting.

Earlier in the thread there has been a cynical comment about someone enjoying the roast-process and at least two contributors admitted to enjoying the roast experience. I always enjoy a new roast and can't wait until the next day for the tasting, particularly when i'm fiddling with the roast and it would be even move exciting if I were to buy more different beans.

How much stock of greens do you people hold ?
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Postby zix » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:35 am

Yes, something like that, Richard. The beans are in a drum made from some sort of grid metal, the heaters are at the back wall. The drom rotates, and there are vanes in the drum to help the bean agitation.
‹• Bezzera B3000AL • Strietman ES3 • Chemex • Cona C size • Aeropress • Vev moka • Bialetti Brikka • Espro • Cezve • Bacchi Espresso • Arrarex Caravel •
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