Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Roasters and roasting

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Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Postby orrinoconnor » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:37 pm

I never thought I would have so many problems regulating and estimating how much coffee to roast.
I never would have guessed I could go through so much coffee!:shock:
It's the whole problem of waiting after roasting, it's pointless using the beans for about 2 or 3 days after roasting and no mater how much you roast you just get through it quicker and always end up trying to ration out the last 100gms or so.
I think ill turn the blinds down and stop answering the door!:D
I did three 250gms roasts last night all accurate weight and a 6 seconds difference between each roast.
It's amazing how the roast beans accelerate in loosing moisture in the last stages of roasting.

1st 12min 10 sec final weight 225 gms
2nd 12min 16 sec final weight 218 gms
3rd 12min 22 sec final weight 199 gms

I'm still having fun playing with it all!

:lol:
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RE: Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Postby Justin » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:06 am

I've tried to schedule my roasts and consumption such that I always have an at-least-72-hour rested batch ready to consume. With the Behmor, I usually roast an 8oz batch twice or thrice a week.

I have wondered about accommodating a roast specifically for drinking in the office, i.e. roasted/blended/selected for V60 or Aeropress. Currently I just bring the remnants of the previous batch after cracking open a freshly-rested batch.
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RE: Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Postby Jasonscheltus » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:09 am

I've never heard of such a dramatic spread of loss like that.

A normal range is 83-87% yield (percentage of coffee in / coffee out). In your case 225 grams out / 250 grams in = 90% yield, and 87.2% and 79.6%

I've never heard of anyone having more than a 87% or lower than a 81% yield. And for the same coffee, on the same roaster, (no offence, but) it just seems like maybe you're making a mistake somewhere.
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Re: RE: Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Postby orrinoconnor » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:09 pm

Jasonscheltus wrote:I've never heard of such a dramatic spread of loss like that.

A normal range is 83-87% yield (percentage of coffee in / coffee out). In your case 225 grams out / 250 grams in = 90% yield, and 87.2% and 79.6%

I've never heard of anyone having more than a 87% or lower than a 81% yield. And for the same coffee, on the same roaster, (no offence, but) it just seems like maybe you're making a mistake somewhere.


Jason, I still have the bags sitting unused that is definitely the figures.
I was very careful in my weights and weighing.
They are all the same bean: Bolivia Finca Machacamarca.
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RE: Re: RE: Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Postby bruceb » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:40 pm

Ray, I think the problem is your designation "1st," "2nd" and "3rd" above. These are not different roasts, but different times for one roast, are they not? It would appear Jason took those to be different roasts.

I just checked a few of my roasts and the roast mass varies between 81.2% an 84.5% (full-city, different beans) of the original (400g) green mass.
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Postby orrinoconnor » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:18 pm

bruceb wrote:Ray, I think the problem is your designation "1st," "2nd" and "3rd" above. These are not different roasts, but different times for one roast, are they not? It would appear Jason took those to be different roasts.

I just checked a few of my roasts and the roast mass varies between 81.2% an 84.5% (full-city, different beans) of the original (400g) green mass.

Edit sorry" Bruce they are three different roasts with the timing of each being 6 seconds longer than the roast before."
The figures of the longest roast time would equate to about a 20% loss.
My reasoning in posting was to show that at a particular point nearing the end of roasting things do become much more dramatic and fast.
My observance was only in that loss of water obviously becomes increasingly more rapid within a time period.
Obviously this would cease at a point where the bean dries.
My intent was to try and show in a way that people could perhaps relate more easily just how critical time becomes nearing the end of roast.

Greenbean had at length explained how important the changes are in the last 12 seconds or so and how much it changed the flavor!
I know there is going to be other changes besides moisture loss, eg sugar carmelising to name one.
My observations are probably common knowledge to those more experienced in roasting, but I hope it goes some way to guiding the thoughts of those that are just starting out !

The middle roast is quite delicious hopefully I can replicate it !:shock:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Postby GreenBean » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:27 pm

orrinoconnor wrote:
bruceb wrote:Ray, I think the problem is your designation "1st," "2nd" and "3rd" above. These are not different roasts, but different times for one roast, are they not? It would appear Jason took those to be different roasts.

I just checked a few of my roasts and the roast mass varies between 81.2% an 84.5% (full-city, different beans) of the original (400g) green mass.

Edit sorry" Bruce they are three different roasts with the timing of each being 6 seconds longer than the roast before."
The figures of the longest roast time would equate to about a 20% loss.
My reasoning in posting was to show that at a particular point nearing the end of roasting things do become much more dramatic and fast.
My observance was only in that loss of water obviously becomes increasingly more rapid within a time period.
Obviously this would cease at a point where the bean dries.
My intent was to try and show in a way that people could perhaps relate more easily just how critical time becomes nearing the end of roast.

Greenbean had at length explained how important the changes are in the last 12 seconds or so and how much it changed the flavor!
I know there is going to be other changes besides moisture loss, eg sugar carmelising to name one.
My observations are probably common knowledge to those more experienced in roasting, but I hope it goes some way to guiding the thoughts of those that are just starting out !

The middle roast is quite delicious hopefully I can replicate it !:shock:


Ray, I am not at all sure that this will help anyone. As Jasonscheltus says it does not look as though your results are correct. The entire roast profile is important and affects the result. How the roast progresses from first crack to the end of the roast is particularly important. I do not believe I have ever made any comment about the last 12 seconds, although 12 seconds more or less in second crack would of course make a significant difference.

Comparing roasts based on overall roasting time is not going to be helpful as each roast will progress differently, particularly so if one roast follows another and ,therefore, starts with the roaster at a different temperature. I suggest you record start and end of first crack, start of second crack and end of roast and use those times to compare roasts.
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Postby orrinoconnor » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:53 pm

GB, I do take your point on the entire roast profile.
My intention was not to profile a roast, only to point out an observance of three similar roasts and the "fact" (my weight measurement's before and after roast were correct within the limitations of the scale) that in coming toward the end of a roast, moisture loss is happening an increasingly accelerated pace.
I Further acknowledged that this will only be able to happen to a point where moisture is available to evaporate from the bean.
Perhaps I should have mentioned that the longest roast was just going into the 1st pops of 2nd crack when stopped.
It was never my intention to point out an entire roast profile; only my observation of a dramatically increasing and accelerated moisture loss toward the point where most roasts would perhaps be finishing.
Hopefully this will clarify my intention's
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Postby bruceb » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:22 pm

The problem with this is that what you are measuring is NOT just the loss of moisture. Green coffee beans have moisture levels of 8-15% with most about 10%. A yield of 85% means a weight loss of 15%. That means one-third of the loss in mass is the result of something other than drying. This loss is directly affected by the profile of the roast and will vary greatly from roaster to roaster and from bean to bean. Drying (loss of moisture) is complete at the time the beans begin to turn tan. I must say that I agree with GB that this is not a particularly useful criterion.
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Roast Stock Managment Problems!

Postby GreenBean » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:01 pm

GreenBean wrote:Ray, I am not at all sure that this will help anyone. As Jasonscheltus says it does not look as though your results are correct. The entire roast profile is important and affects the result. How the roast progresses from first crack to the end of the roast is particularly important. I do not believe I have ever made any comment about the last 12 seconds, although 12 seconds more or less in second crack would of course make a significant difference.

Comparing roasts based on overall roasting time is not going to be helpful as each roast will progress differently, particularly so if one roast follows another and ,therefore, starts with the roaster at a different temperature. I suggest you record start and end of first crack, start of second crack and end of roast and use those times to compare roasts.

On reading this thread again I realise that I may not have been clear in my previous post above. Only the first two sentences of the previous post relate to your experiment with weight loss during the roast.

The remainder of my comments relate to your attempt to improve your roasts and when I refer to results I meant results in the cup and not to weight loss.
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