The Quest M3

Roasters and roasting

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Postby daveyb » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:43 pm

The most control I have seen any roaster have, is the Gene Cafe with either one or both of the mods done. In a nutshell, the internal wiring is re-routed through a switch and dimmer switch so that you regualte the wattage as opposed to the voltage.
The second part of the mod is to change the 240 volt UK element for a 230 volt if you are in an area which suffers drops in voltage.
When the dimmer is switched on the it is possible as you learn your beans, to really stretch the roast out from the point of first crack by lowering the wattage.
But from memory, Gene Cafe is not a liked word on this forum so perhaps no one will be particularly interested!
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Postby Viernes » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:21 am

:shock: What's the problem with the Gene?

I'm interested in your mod; I have a Gene.

lukas wrote:If you have trouble controlling the temperature after first crack, try lowering the power to 2A approx. 10-20degC before the anticipated first crack - this can be a as early as a minute or two! Also, if you crank the fan up a few notches shortly before 1C, you probably get a smoother curve as well.

edit: don't forget to up the power again, I do it somewhere between 20 secods before 1C to 1 minute after. Also, keeping records of the profile and occasionally analyzing them helps wonders :)


Yep. I'm lowering the power at 180C, and I cut off the power for 40 seconds at 190. It works for me. Will try the fan tip. Thanks :)
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Postby jossy » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:12 pm

oton wrote:
:( Don't tell me that my friend. I don't want to add a heat gun to the Quest in the kitchen... looks horrible. :?


You can hide the HG under the kitchen sink (as I do) and only take it out for the crucial 2-3 minutes, after having made sure that no one is watching you :?

oton wrote:I have some problems to tame the Quest after 1C... too much temperature coming of the ramp up, so it's difficult to extend the time after 1C without reach too much temp. Adding the heat gun to speed up the ramp up phase wouldn't worsen this?

When you reach 1C with and without the heatgun? I reach 1C about 9 mins. with 150 g


Typically 12-13 minute to 1C without HG and 8-9 minute with HG. I do lose some control just after 1C (and my temperature display is useless as soon as the HG is on) but usually regain it about 1-2 minute after I switch off the HG. Depending on the beans, I can extend the post 1C ramp between 5 and 10 minutes without hitting 2C, going up 1-2 deg per minute. From your description, it sounds like you should lower your power input significantly. Nine minutes to 1C without HG sounds much too fast compared to my experiences. Or maybe I haven't cleaned my Quest for too long and I am benefiting from the inertia of having to heat loads of accumulated chaf :roll:
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Postby lukas » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:45 am

From my limited comparative testing, reaching 1c in the Quest in under 10 minutes is very doable, even with 300g roasts (with the only modification being the added insulation), but almost always results in too sour roasts that can only be balanced out by overstretching the phase after 1c and thereby having a flat tasting roast.

Airflow during/after 1c seems *very* crucial to the success of the roast, and I'm often surprised that the more airflow I try, the better the result.
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Postby jossy » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:01 am

lukas wrote:Airflow during/after 1c seems *very* crucial to the success of the roast, and I'm often surprised that the more airflow I try, the better the result.


Good point! I forgot to mention that I turn the airflow from about 3 to 6+ during the HG phase, then pull back to 3-4 during the ramp post 1C.
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Postby CakeBoy » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:57 pm

We have a Gene that now has the issues with reaching temperature. It was a great machine to use. It would be nice to be able to mod it and get it going again.
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Postby lukas » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:15 am

And I'm sure someone will come along shortly with an elaborate description of how to fix it cakes :)
The things I can think of are a) clogged up airways/fan or b) dying heating element or c) the voltage in your area suddenly dropped.
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Postby Viernes » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:56 am

What you M3 users do when roast?

I preheat to about 180ºC ET
Drop beans
550W/Fan 0 - Keep bean door open

Reached 150C
1000W/F Max - Bean door closed

Reached 180C
700W/F4

Reached 190C
0W/F4 for 40 seconds; then 700W/F4

Drop beans about 210C


I'm using Machacamarca. Anyone have a good profile or a good way to roast this bean?
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Postby CakeBoy » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:57 pm

I wish it was only one of those Lukas. There is a well documented firmware issue with earlier Genes. The net result was (as far as I can recall some years on) the fan was called at the wrong time and in the end we founf it impossible to get up to temperature. Baking followed. We changed the heater, stat and everything. I know there are mods and voltage workarounds of varying complexity about but we didn't follow up on one once the Pinhalense arrived. It would be nice though to get the Gene going again :)
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Postby lukas » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:02 pm

Cakes, I didn't realize the Gene even had a firmware! Bummers.

Oton, this is how I roasted my best as-of-yet tasting brazil Bob-o-Link (Faz. Ambiental Fortaleza). 173g of greens (the rest of a few KGs). Preheat the Quest, power at ~3.7amps, airflow near the lowest setting (slighly below 3, I don't know if the airflow numbers are comparable between Quests).

drop in at 145degC (bean door closed, no change in airflow or amps).
5 minutes in at ~142degC, airflow at 4.
12 minutes in at ~185degC, 2.5amps
~13.5 minutes at 192degC 1C, 4amps, airflow at 5
towards the end: max airflow
19 minutes in at 212degC EOR.

I tried many different variations roasting this bean, and the times look woefully off, compared to what is recommended on other forums. Turned out it really needed a very low starting temperature. Next time I have these beans I'd probably finish a minute earlier at around 207degC for hopefully more of the berry taste, but this was to date one of the best roasts I produced - and delicous it was! I was very surprised that a 19 minute roast yielded such delicate berry flavours and nearly wasn't nutty at all and certainly not baked.

OK, compared to a brazilian a friend brought from Tim Wendelboe/Oslo, my roast bursted with roast notes. On the other hand, compared to my roast, TW's brazilian bursted with hell-i'm-a-cupping-roast-with-no-defects-but-soouuur. It really depended which side of the cupping table I started.

Both were tremendously satisfying on their own, but each compared directly to the other tasted quite awful because they were so contrasting.

BTW, buy TW's coffee. I have never had a coffee with no roast tastes whatsoever that tasted so clean and delicous and satisfying on its own.
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Postby CakeBoy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:16 am

Not had the pleasure of sampling a TW roast though it is most definitely on my list.
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Postby lukas » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:14 pm

I recently spoke to a roaster who basically said 'all these nordic roasts are way too sour to be any good'. After this cupping I was able to understand where he came from. For us more middle europeans (compared to Oslo!), the tastebuds are definitly more accomplished to more medium to dark roasts.
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Postby lukas » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:12 pm

Short update: ~300g roasts finally work how they should. It's not all that complicated: be not afraid of high drop temperatures (for 300g roasts, usually around 220-230degC). The higher the load, the more airflow is needed throughout the roast. Sounds simple, is simple, but took me a while to figure out. My bestest roast of a nicaraguan pacamara were 290g, drop temperature 225degC, starting with 4.3amps and approx. 30% airflow (4 on the scale). Approaching 150degC, slightly higher airflow, approaching 170degC, more airflow, approaching 185c, lower the heat and add even more airflow ... drop sometime after first crack. This gets me ~13-15minutes total time and very tasty coffee :)
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Postby Sarion » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:42 pm

Cakey, do you have the Gene up and running again? When my Gene has trouble reaching higher temperatures, it`s always been the airfilter on the chaff box. When you undo the 5(?) screws at the bottom of the box, and open it up, you can remove 4 more screws from the little screen inside. Behind that screen is where it always clogs up. Cleaning it with a brush helps. Did you try that yet?
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Postby CakeBoy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:08 pm

Sounds great Lukas :)

Hi Sarion :) Yes, we had it apart a few times and all the filters/screens were clear. Maybe we will pull it out again and have another fiddle about with it. How old is your model? Our was one of the earliest and it definately had the fan/firmware issue.
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