The Quest M3

Roasters and roasting

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Postby GreenBean » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:15 pm

bruceb wrote:..... Looking at your roaster controls make me think I am going to have to add some knobs here and there to the Maggio. Do you know what kind of control is used to adjust the current to the heating element? Thanks again for the great report.

I have no specific information on the M3 circuit but, in general, home roasters use a simple dimmer type circuit and this is all you need. If you can find a light dimmer suitable for the relatively high current of your roasters heating element then that would work. If it is near the limit of the current capacity of the dimmer you could add extra heat sink capacity. Quaser Electronics sell a 2000 W dimmer module for GBP21.95 that would be suitablehere. User manual here.

Note that they say that a mains filter should be used to reduce any interference this dimmer can cause. You should, no doubt follow this advice, I would try it first and see if I noticed any interference. :wink: :D
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Postby bruceb » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:33 pm

Thanks GB. I have one of those kicking around here somewhere, but I don't think it has the capacity of the heating element. I'll check the local electronics shop for one. Somehow I was hoping for something more elegant, whereby I don't really know what I mean by that. A 2kw triac is one big, heavy chunk of machinery and doesn't seem very elegant either. I have to admit that I was sort of hoping I could find something that can be controlled by a PC directly. I guess I can get the Arduino to do it, but it'll take time for me to get around to a project like that. :?


GreenBean wrote:
bruceb wrote:..... Looking at your roaster controls make me think I am going to have to add some knobs here and there to the Maggio. Do you know what kind of control is used to adjust the current to the heating element? Thanks again for the great report.

I have no specific information on the M3 circuit but, in general, home roasters use a simple dimmer type circuit and this is all you need. If you can find a light dimmer suitable for the relatively high current of your roasters heating element then that would work. If it is near the limit of the current capacity of the dimmer you could add extra heat sink capacity. Quaser Electronics sell a 2000 W dimmer module for GBP21.95 that would be suitablehere. User manual here.

Note that they say that a mains filter should be used to reduce any interference this dimmer can cause. You should, no doubt follow this advice, I would try it first and see if I noticed any interference. :wink: :D
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby Viernes » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:50 pm

lukas wrote:As long as the manual states "DO NOT LEAVE THE ROASTER WHILE OPERATING AND HAVE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER READY" ...


Seeing those circuits and all metal parts of the roaster, I'd be more worried about an electrocution than a fire. :shock:

Perhaps it could be insulated with some plastic?
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Postby GreenBean » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:43 pm

bruceb wrote:
GreenBean wrote:
bruceb wrote:..... Looking at your roaster controls make me think I am going to have to add some knobs here and there to the Maggio. Do you know what kind of control is used to adjust the current to the heating element? Thanks again for the great report.

I have no specific information on the M3 circuit but, in general, home roasters use a simple dimmer type circuit and this is all you need. If you can find a light dimmer suitable for the relatively high current of your roasters heating element then that would work. If it is near the limit of the current capacity of the dimmer you could add extra heat sink capacity. Quaser Electronics sell a 2000 W dimmer module for GBP21.95 that would be suitablehere. User manual here.

Note that they say that a mains filter should be used to reduce any interference this dimmer can cause. You should, no doubt follow this advice, I would try it first and see if I noticed any interference. :wink: :D
Thanks GB. I have one of those kicking around here somewhere, but I don't think it has the capacity of the heating element. I'll check the local electronics shop for one. Somehow I was hoping for something more elegant, whereby I don't really know what I mean by that. A 2kw triac is one big, heavy chunk of machinery and doesn't seem very elegant either. I have to admit that I was sort of hoping I could find something that can be controlled by a PC directly. I guess I can get the Arduino to do it, but it'll take time for me to get around to a project like that. :?

I thought you said you wanted some knobs to twiddle Bruce.:wink: I am shocked that you are considering computer control. :shock: :D

The Arduino site has a lot of information on what you are trying to do. Basically I suggest you use a suitable SSR for the current required, most are zero crossing, that is they only switch at zero phase angle. This removes the mains interference problem but means they have to be switched in whole half sine waves. For a heater this is no problem as it can be switched slowly and will smooth out the heat output.

The Arduino can switch the SSR directly. The minimum time slice is one half cycle or, for 50 Hz, 10 millisec. If you use say 20 millisec and want 100 power levels then you would use a total time period of 2 seconds. So for example 50% power would then be 1 second on and one second off. This is exactly what I use on my computer controlled Hottops except I do not need the SSR, I use the built in circuit to do the switching.

If you read up on the Arduino site you should find all the information you need on this.
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Izzo Alex Duetto | Gaggia XD 2 Group | Mazzer Super Jolly | La Cimbali Max | Solis 166 | Dalian 1 kg roaster | Hottop P | Hottop B | French Press (several) | Kettle modded, no really, added digital thermometer |
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Postby bruceb » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:27 pm

GreenBean wrote:I thought you said you wanted some knobs to twiddle Bruce.:wink: I am shocked that you are considering computer control. :shock: :D


This just shows that I don't really know what I want. :oops:
I like the freedom the Maggiolino offers, but I am sort of a control freak and like the idea of being able to set up a curve and just let the PC do the twiddling.

I will read up on how to set up the Arduino and may start playing with it this spring. The Maggio already has an SSR, controlled by an Omron E5EN "thermostat," so I can just go from there.

Thanks much for the useful information, GB. :D
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby farmroast » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:52 am

These might interest you.
TC4 project Long developing thread. Arduino based

Artisan beta roasting software
DreamRoast roaster, Olympia: Cremina, Maximatic. Bezzera: Familia, BZ99. Mazzer Majors. Technivorm 741
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Postby bruceb » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:03 am

farmroast wrote:These might interest you.
TC4 project Long developing thread. Arduino based

Artisan beta roasting software


Thank you kindly. I've been avoiding reading those because I know how hard it will be to resist jumping into this path and I already have so man irons in the fire. :oops: :lol:

I've been reading lots of articles about the Arduino and have toyed with ordering a starter kit with practice material, but I am not a programmer and really don't have the drive to become one. I started learning C++ many years ago and after getting to "Hello world" I went on to woodworking and coffee making. :lol:

Thanks again, however and I definitely will take a look at them again.
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
Image
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Postby orrinoconnor » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:10 pm

bruceb wrote: I started learning C++ many years ago and after getting to "Hello world" I went on to woodworking and coffee making. :lol:

That seems like a fair swap to me Bruce!
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Postby icke » Tue May 31, 2011 8:53 pm

hmmm, my hottop just packed in (again) so i think i might be getting closer to finding some replacement for it... ideally i'd love to get something a bit bigger but as the prices rise exponentially with rising bean mass that can be browned...

so lukas, i know you've been busy honeymooning etc but how are your long(er) term impressions - are you still a fan of the m3?

cheers,
o
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Postby jossy » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:38 am

I've had a Quest M3 for over a year now and I'm still delighted with it. I use it without added electronic paraphernalia with the built-in analog thermometer. I reluctantly tried the heat gun "upgrade" described on HB, despite the fact that I thought it looked very uncool... I did a side by side non-blind tasting with a strong wish to prove the new method useless. Sadly (or not....), I must report that the heat gun method rocks beyond my wildest dreams and my roasts have improved by a mile. Somehow, inserting a heat gun (I use a Bosch cheapest 2-level model on the lower level) into the probe opening between the drying phase (approx. 5-6 minutes into the roast) and the first pops of first crack brings out the brightness and fruitiness of almost any bean in a spectacular way, while in maintaining the strong body that you would expect from a drum roaster. Highly recommended, despite the uncoolness!
Last edited by jossy on Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby jossy » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:44 am

jossy wrote:I use it without added electronic paraphernalia...

I should add that I would have nothing against more accurate temperature readings and the only reason I did not add the electronic paraphernalia is for lack of time...

Remark added so as not to anger the many wonderful wizards who have spent a lot of time improving the controls on the Quest and whose advice I will follow religiously once I get around to it.
Quest M3 - iRoast2 - Mahlkönig Vario - PIDed Gaggia Classic at home - - Electric Cezve/Ibriki and Iberital MC2 at work - Aeroporess - Hario TCA Syphons - Hario Skerton and Porlex Hand Grinders - Chemex
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Postby lukas » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:50 am

Jossy, reading this makes me want to try that heatgun mod :)

The single biggest improvements in my roasts was insulating the quest with thin ceramic fiber 'paper'. Afterwards, the roasts became 99% reproducible, and controlling 250g roasts became much better (I still haven't tried 300g). Before, it was more 50% accuracy - every puff threw the temperatures off a little bit, also actually using the tryer resulted in slightly changed roasts. Only after insulating it I realized all this ;)

I still love being able to roast ~1KG per hour, though sometimes it feels it's not enough anymore!

Would I buy it again? Definitly yes! Though I'd ask if they could insulate it during production, as that would be more elegant.

I'd love to get my hands on a Huky500 and see where the differences and similarities are!

And one last thing that made me scratch my head: A few weeks ago I had the pleasure operating a Diedrich IR2 and IR12 - and 'driving' them was nearly exactly equivalent to driving the Quest. I was astonished.

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Postby icke » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:51 pm

the hottop is back in business for now, i just had to replace the fusible link. after visiting the usual suspects (forums) however, i believe that with machines like the m3 or the huky 500 there are great improvements in terms of value for money over what was available 3-4 years ago when i got the hottop.
today the hu(s)ky might win the race into my coffee kitchen though...

for now however, i keep roasting with the hottop until it dies on me for sure

no, i will not yield to upgraditis for no reason again.
no, i will not yield to upgraditis for no reason again.
no, i will not yield to upgraditis for no reason again.
no, i will not yield to upgraditis for no reason again.
no, i will not yield to upgraditis for no reason again.
no, i will not yield to upgraditis for no reason again.
no, i will not yield to upgraditis for no reason again....
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Postby Viernes » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:01 pm

jossy wrote: I must report that the heat gun method rocks beyond my wildest dreams and my roasts have improved by a mile.


:( Don't tell me that my friend. I don't want to add a heat gun to the Quest in the kitchen... looks horrible. :?

I have some problems to tame the Quest after 1C... too much temperature coming of the ramp up, so it's difficult to extend the time after 1C without reach too much temp. Adding the heat gun to speed up the ramp up phase wouldn't worsen this?

When you reach 1C with and without the heatgun? I reach 1C about 9 mins. with 150 g
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Postby lukas » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:26 pm

If you have trouble controlling the temperature after first crack, try lowering the power to 2A approx. 10-20degC before the anticipated first crack - this can be a as early as a minute or two! Also, if you crank the fan up a few notches shortly before 1C, you probably get a smoother curve as well.

edit: don't forget to up the power again, I do it somewhere between 20 secods before 1C to 1 minute after. Also, keeping records of the profile and occasionally analyzing them helps wonders :)
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