What is a dark roast?

[simonp]

After the recent discussions about dark/light roasts, I started wondering exactly what is a dark roast. I thought that this was something well into 2nd crack, and a Northern Italian roast was just at 2nd crack. However I was looking at Sweet Marias website last night, specifially at Toms pre-blends, and in the roast guide for his Monkey blend he recommends "stopped just as second crack becomes rapid, and shows no sign of slowing down", in my experience this is quite a while after the first pops of 2nd. Also, for the Liquid Amber blend; "I advocate a Northern Italian style roast (lighter espresso roast, really a Vienna roast, stopped 30-45 seconds into 2nd crack). I would have classed 45 seconds into 2nd crack as quite a dark roast.
What do the rest of you think?

[phil]

Well for me those are pretty dark roasts, although the times really only make sense when qualified by the roasting decvice used.

Perhaps though your current thoughts are inherited from Eeffoc & I as we're both ardent light roast merchants

[simonp]

Perhaps though your current thoughts are inherited from Eeffoc & I as we're both ardent light roast merchants

I thought that Tom from SM was also a lighter roast advocate.

I know the times are somewhat arbitrary, but the rolling second is fairly definitive, I have rarely gone there except with certain beans (Lintong).

I have been taking my roasts just a little further recently (15-20 seconds after first snap, mind first snap often happens 10 secs before any more), which has just knocked off the sharp/sour edge I occasionally tasted.

[mnemonix]

And where do 'shiny' beans enter into this ? I'm also a light roaster but have been trying for something with more bite for cappucinos and going into a rolling second, but I'm still seeing very little, if any, oil. Is this due to air roasting perhaps ? I know most commercial roasts are overdone but shiny beans seem to be the norm behind café counters.

Chris.

[phil]

I think the shiny-ness is a sign of age chaps. Only witness the top of my head!

[tisri]

Since I seem to have got myself a reputation as a (if not the) dark-roast lover I might as well throw my five proverbial eggs in.

When I'm roasting dark for making espresso I typically roast until second crack is popping furiously - this can be anything up to 90 seconds from the first pops of second. So far the furthest I've pushed with the Hottop is about 60 seconds after the beans started popping pretty regularly in second, so about 45 seconds of furious popping. Typically by then there's a lot of smoke and the beans are similar in colour to something like Bourbon chocolate. When I hit the Eject button (I usually do, just so I can define exactly how long they've had) the second crack continues until they cool down and the kitchen ends up full of smoke - for these roasts I keep the back door open and a large fan on hand!

It seems that some beans get very oily and others don't. Oddly enough despite my love of dark roasts I haven't managed to actually burn a batch yet. Ironically the time I thought I had it turned out the beans were underdone

[simonp]

That's way darker than what I have been calling dark i.e. 20-30 seconds into 2nd crack, looks like I'm on the light side!

[tisri]

I tried roasting Hasbean's espresso blend much lighter than I normally do, and dumped the batch just as second crack was starting. It's great for latte/cappuccino but too light for espresso (to my taste at least).

I have to say that's what I really love about home-roasting, being able to experiment with lighter-than-normal and darker-than-normal batches. Admittedly by my espresso standards darker-than-normal means charcoal, but I just love having a huge bag of beans and roasting however I feel like it on the day!

[mattmills]

I now that this comment may be a little out of the home roasting areana but those of you who have used or know about the colour metres then this is a very good way to monitor the darkness of a blend. I personnally use a Neotec system, however i know that Probat use a good one too.

The reason for this is that is works on beans of light being bounced of a flat surface of ground coffee. This is very important as the internal developpment of the bean can be different to that of the exterior apppearance.

[Raf]

Mmm, maybe if I have such a neotec thing on my Imex, I can get a decent roast then

[simonp]

This is very important as the internal developpment of the bean can be different to that of the exterior apppearance.

My first home roast, which were about 6 minutes, gave a much darker outer than the grounds colour would indicate, with the 20 minutes roasts I now do the outer bean colour is a much better indicator of the internal roast degree.