Too Much Coffee

Ok guys a simple question. I have been reading trough this section trying to decide which roaster to purchase.

Like my espresso machine, it needs to be bought on the following principle :- "works with minumum of fuss"

in other words I really dont want to be fitting thermo couples, temperature surfing, praying to roasting gods, each time I use it.

Which one of the roasters, for example on the hasbean site ..... is the minimum entry no fuss machine.

the I-burn/rattle/smoke/ does have a nice price tag, but if I need to modify it, I dont really want to be bothered with that.

I realise that there is going to be lots of playing and choosing profiles and that I enjoy .... I just dont want to have a machine that requires a screw driver and a maplins catelog to work ??

Any advice ?

Possibly wait until the Behmor is here or the HT.

Your first question should be: what capacity roaster do I need.

probat micro roasters? sure you dont want to mod such a roaster...

johnny wrote:
the I-burn/rattle/smoke/ does have a nice price tag, but if I need to modify it, I dont really want to be bothered with that.

You shouldn't need to do anything to it. I found mine very easy to use and to program different profiles. Some people criticize them for having a small capacity. I think it's okay, it's so easy to roast with it's no big deal to wait for it to cool down and do another batch if you need it.

However, I only use mine when I'm too busy or can't be bothered using the whirley popper. I get much better results with this - even for medium roasts.

If you're looking at the I-roast, my guess is that you're aiming <250g capacity-wise. In that case I'll go with our NZ-representative : wait for the behmor. Even if it turns out that's not the one for you, you'll know you'll have made an informed choice.

ivdp wrote:Your first question should be: what capacity roaster do I need.

Well I dont know, what size roaster you need .... but I on average drink anywhere between 150g and 250g a week of coffee

So I guess around the 200g mark would be ideal

fred25 wrote:wait for the behmor. Even if it turns out that's not the one for you, you'll know you'll have made an informed choice.

I think I'll wait a bit then ..... whens this puppy due out over here ?

AUTUMN !!!!!!! ...... ah man I hate waiting.

Just been doing lots of research on this Behmor ..... it sounds ideal, I cant wait till Autumn though ... I hate waiting for anything. I am a salesmans dream I am ... Once I am shown something I want it there and then !!!!!!

Dare I suggest a CAfe Gene at around £260. As opposed to profiles, which really need an in depth knowledge of the beans you are roasting, relies upon nothing more intuitive than 2 dials, one for time and one for temperature. Still readily available in the UK.

HOT TOP
Looks like a tank, built like a tank. Utterly reliable. Does 250g no fuss (around 190-220 roasted, depending on how dark you like it). Teaches you methodical working, observation and not to swan off for a cuppa in the middle of roasting.
I have the programmable version but I think I'd be almost as happy with the standard model. Err... no I wouldn't, actually, but I know lots of people who are very happy with theirs.
For not much more sponds than the Gene and makes much nicer coffee, imo

The HotTop "B" model has received good reviews and is £100 cheaper than the programmable...

Below that it seems to be only the analog model with no time or temperature indication, which I would not necessarily want if I had to buy another HotTop - but it is down to just £340 at HasBean and the build quality is just as solid as the other models (I owned one for over a year).

Cheers,

Hugh

I still haven't made my mind up about the Hottop "P" At some point I'll probably post separately about this, but I'm still getting it all straight in my mind. I have a "P" I upgraded my old model hottop earlier this year.

Credit to Hottop, it does almost everything it's supposed to, but it's not terribly hands on, and in that respect, I think the "B" model might actually be better.

What the "P" is designed for I think, is "profiling" roasts. That is basically mapping out how the temperature changes over time, and storing that as a program, to be repeated in a hopefully very similar, if not identical fashion, again and again. Seems pretty straightforward.

I'm not sure whether I'm alone in this opinion, but the idea of breaking roasts down into time-based segments, dealing with the thermal inertia of the element, the natural rate of temperature rise in the roaster, and deciding whether to deliberately engineer things to make the hottop "miss" to force the element on permanently, is not always intuitive. Then you have to run the program and check whether it gave the changes you wanted when you wanted them. However, once you have done this, and saved the program, you at least have a reasonable chance of repeating the process later, assuming a similar ambient temperature, supply voltage, bean mass and moisture content.

The "B" model however, relies more on manual adjustment of the heater power, which is what governs the rate of temperature change in the hottop. You have direct control over the main input affecting the rate of temperature change. This, and the fan speed control, are basically fancy equivalents of what folks have been doing modding the old hottops for years. And it's roughly equivalent to the hands on control of a Gene Cafe, but with the advantages of the hottop design and a last program memory. There's a learning curve here as to what changes to make to the heater power (and therefore the rate of change of temperature) over the course of the roast, but the fact that you're doing it on the fly, and the fact that instead of worrying (as you do with the "P" model) that if the controller decides to turn off the heater completely, you're going to have trouble turning it back on again any time soon because of the thermal inertia. Instead, stick the heater at full or near full until just before 1st, then drop it back to keep 1st in check, then maybe back up to take you through to second, and it seems altogether more interactive and hands on.

I've been thinking about making a manual heater control for my hottop "P" to spend some time with the more hands on approach and see how it works for me. Probably do the manual fan as well, although this is not as important given the already programmable nature.

Ultimately, the key thing with roasting is to develop a feel for the roasting process. Different beans require different roast profiles, some more different than others, and whatever you buy, there's no substitute for time spent making notes and understanding how the roaster and the beans behave.

My personal opinion, is that rather like choosing an espresso machine or a grinder, good tools are always a help, and a pleasure to use, but it's the effort you're prepared to put in that will make the difference between success and failure.

The one nice thing about the hottop "P" and "B" models though, is that they offer an auto mode rather like the original hottop, which can be good for getting you started with them before you're ready to explore further.

I think the most often-stated downside to the hottops is that the temperature readout is based on drum, not bean-mass temperature. The relationship between the two changes throughout the roast, there's not an easy way of mapping them. What you do have, is the use of all your senses and careful note-taking to decide what's happening with the beans, and the points and rates at which these changes occur, to help you make decisions during the roast.

If you buy a "P" or "B" hottop, I doubt you will ever have to mod it. The basic one, well, I think you might eventually want to mod it (or at least officially upgrade it to a "P" or "B") But in terms of the general quality of the roasts, I think they're very good to excellent. Though I wouldn't say no to 500g capacity!

Jon

IIRC the B model can store 3 profiles but check before buying.
There is some good information onthe HotTop USA site here.

Cheers,

Hugh

as bv, i have the P version too. unlike him, i don't play with the profiles that much anymore. i used to twist and change things a lot in the beginning. nowadays however i mostly stick to the same profile and dump the beans sooner or later, depending on how far i want them to go. if i'd face the choice again, i'd probably go for the B model as it seems to allow enough fiddling for my needs. when i got the P, the B wasn't available.

cheers,
olaf