Cafe Gene failings

[daveyb]

Gents,
this will probably annoy some people but if it is a real forum where expression of feelings is allowed then here goes.
I first bought the above a couple of years ago from a well know retailer who I have always had good service from. I fell in love with it straight away, however, after a reasonably short period of time it stopped working. I contacted the retailer who immediately and without hesitation, diagnosed and sent me a repalcement part under warranty with instructions on how to fit. It was the element.
Now, as time goes on and knowledge increases, it would seem that a lot of early machines had similar troubles, and with hindsight, seems to be due to the fact that a lot of European 220 volt machines had and were being sold. It was only post march 2007 that the fault was sorted and a ready supply of 240 volt machines came through.
My question is, should 220 volt machines ever really have been released on the unsuspectiing public?
Personally, I feel the Gene has a lot more to offer a home roaster than any Hottop and once you learn to use the machine properly, can and does give high standard results time after time.
Any views on my first part of the post would be welcome although I am not after a fight with delighted HT owners!

[CakeBoy]

I doubt it will annoy anyone in the scheme of things. People express themselves every day on TMC and we have very few of them bound up with duck tape in the cellar

How is your Gene situation going? Have you got it sorted out to your satisfaction?

[daveyb]

There was no inference of you using ducktape, but that does throw up some unusual images to me..LOL
I sold my gene on fleabay and bought another new one. Very little difference between the machines other than knowledge that you have later firmware and a 240 v element!
I guess when the Behemor comes out over here it will affect the whole home roasting market, unless of course, it proves to be a dog!

[CakeBoy]

The Behmor looks interesting doesn't it? I can't wait to see one 'live'.

[Gouezeri]

Given the choice between a HT and a Gene it has to be HT every time. The roasting methods employed just aren't the same (even though they both use drums) and nor is the build quality. Getting support from the manufacturer also seems somewhat futile. Which is one of the reasons we around here recommend buying from a reputable dealer.

Just look at that yank that tried to burn down his house with a hottop, it survived (the HT, don't know about the building) surprisingly well. Add to this the current price of a HT basic and I know where I'd put my money.

As to voltage requirements, that is always going to be a tricky one. Has it been proven that it was the increased voltage which resulted in the element failures, or can this be put down to anything else? Actually getting manufacturers to supply a 240v model is always an issue as the market just isn't that big, so should only 240v machines be sold? Then, technically, shouldn't we all be at 230v anyway? Though we all know that this is far from the reality!

I really don't think this is as cut and dried as you initially suggest Davey. But I am glad that you managed to get it sorted (more or less) and have had success with the Gene since.

I'm in line, ready and waiting to trial a Behmor.... but I'm not gonna hold my breath...

[daveyb]

The nice thing about owning a piece of kit, is that we all think and believe the one we have is the best! I would not like to pay the additonal outlay for a HT, and then fund filters every year. I do not see any advantage in the Ht except for the cooling debate, but even then you can adjust roating times accordingly. It is the end product which is imnportant and I have yet to see a proper side by side comparison which comes out with the HT having a superior roast product to the gene.

[CakeBoy]

I like them both for different reasons. As Steve once said, it would be great if we could have a home roaster with the best charactasistics of both machines

[Gouezeri]

Why do you like the gene Mark? It is after all just a hot air roaster with a drum and a profiling model which reminds me of coitus interruptus!

[bruceb]

Having roasted on both the Gene and the HT I can agree (as painful as it is) completely witth Gouezeri. I've done over 300 roasts with the HT in the meantime and have changed filters once. It's a tough piece of kit.

[espressomattic]

Dave

My Gene has had it's issues

Three elements, then a small motor drive cog. For it's mechanical failings I think it is a bit of a dog. I suspect it was initially rushed out to compete with the HT. Roast wise, yes it roasts retty well, however for what it is worth I can see no true profiling with it. Having followed a lot of suggestions from lots of other people it isn't quite as versatile as it has been suggested.

It certaily has it's merits though and can produce some really great roasts for sure.

Having seen HT roasts and seen them in action, I would rather have a HT anyday. My Gene came about through the generosity of a god frien and I will always be greatful for it.

[CakeBoy]

True words Mitty. Genesis clearly rushed the Gene onto the market, complete with whatever build issue(s) they appeared to have resolved by March last year.

As Dom suggested, we should all in theory be able to use 230v machines anywhere in Europe, but the reality of unstable voltage supplies does seem to strain the tolerance calculated from region to region in arriving at 230v as a 'standard'. I don't think 220v machines were ever sold in the UK though so that was not the issue.

[daveyb]

This is all very intyeresting stuff.but..........in about 3 or 4 months the current 240v Gene will have been available in the UK for 12 months or so. I do not suppose we will ever find out the stats, but I bet very few machines with the later firmware and 240 v element are returned, or break down in comparison to the earlier models.

Which puts me back to the question I asked, of should they have been sold in the early days with theq wrong voltage element? The average guy in the street would be none the wiser about thes eissues, but anyone with a small amount of knowledge will be the wiser. Who is to blame for these early models hitting the streets. Genesis, the importer or the supplier?

Now, onto HT v gene but purely in terms of roasting. I hold my hands up and say openly that the build quiality of the HT is much better, but it is a domestic coffee roaster and if I wanted soemthing to knock down my house I would buy a sledgehammer. The important issue is what sort of coffee does it bring to the table.
Again, we each will have our own views on this one as we all possess our own taste buds........but..........well, if you are happy with your HT, then so be it, but remember, there is nothing definitive in all of this. If you get the chance to do a roast off against a gene user who actually knows what he is doing, then i think you will be in for a shock!

[Gouezeri]

Hey matt, didn't you burn out a couple of the new elements?

As for pointing fingers as to who is to blame for an unproven issue. I see little point in that. It doesn't really get us anywhere. Do we really know the precise cause of the failures? If the voltage rating was the sole issue, then who is to blame if a 220v item is used with a 240-250v line? What was sold was what was available.

Actually, I have sampled roasts from cafe gene's and hottops from a number of people that use both, along with a wide variety of other machines (commercial and domestic!). Now I think most people would agree that certain beans can suit certain types roasters. But if we're after one machine for as many types of beans as possible, I still know which I would go for. I can also think of quite a few people who could say the same. But hey, why not start a poll on it.

[daveyb]

All a poll would show, is how many HT owners there are in comparison to genes! After all, no respsective owner would vote for the oppsition and if you do not own either, then it has nowt to do with you...LOL

[Gouezeri]

Actually, there are plenty of people here that have owned and used both.