Too Much Coffee

Hi!
I am going to buy a Hottop in a relatively near future (about a few months) and I am hesitating between the B and P. I was strongly discuraged from getting the B by someone (well... a seller ) and encouraged also strongly by the users on H-B.
I appreciate any opinions, comments, suggestions, I will ask more detailed questions after that.
Thank you in advance,
Pawel

The B might be the best value depending on the price in Europe, e.g. if it were 2/3 the P cost or less I'd suggest looking into the B.

The B lets you save 3 profiles (e.g. light/medium/dark roasts?) but you have to dial in the settings as you roast then choose to save the profile.

The P is much more like traditional programming - set target temp, fan speed and duration of step for up to 7 steps in a profile, save that profile and only then can you roast using that profile. You can have 8 - 10 profiles on the P, I think - do check as I'm not sure.

You have to adjust the B during the roast, whereas you CAN optionally adjust the P during the roast by dropping or raising the target temperature but this affects only the current step.

I have had no problems with the KN8828P but it has taken much more re-learning than I expected after using an analog then digital HotTop for 3 years.

Cheers,

Hugh

Is the B model available in Europe as a 220-240 volt version?

GreenBean wrote:Is the B model available in Europe as a 220-240 volt version?

yes, directly from Hottop only.
I'm leaning towards the P, despite the pro-B coments on HB. Question is if the P just cuts off the power when it eventually reaches the set temp in a segment and in the next the temp is the same (or I decrease it to be alike) or does it incorporate any more sophisticated control? In the B I would have full control on that one.

As already stated on this forum, I got the "B"asic machine.

So far I don't feel any pressing need to "reproduce" roasting profiles; I'm happy with doing it all manual, "hit the button when (I think) it's right".

Quite frankly, I would not leave a coffee-toaster (that's what it really is) like the Hottop unattended (the instructions, rightly, profusely warn against leaving it unattended whilst roasting), hence any hints that the roaster would be, in any way, "automatic" would be a misguidance, rendering any such advantage theoretical in nature only.

I use my handwritten roasting log to aid me in predetermining how, to what degree of roast, I wish to go, not any "saved" on-board programme.

If I'm not mistaken, the latest "hi-end" version of the Hottop costs about half the price of an average laptop over and above that of the basic model. To me that is ..ridiculous.

What I bought, in the Hottop, is a piece of well thought out stainless steel machinery that will, hopefully, stay with me for quite a number of years; not a "computerized" gizmo.

Only my 2 eurocents, of course...
Paul

Belgik wrote:As already stated on this forum, I got the "B"asic machine.

So far I don't feel any pressing need to "reproduce" roasting profiles; I'm happy with doing it all manual, "hit the button when (I think) it's right".

Quite frankly, I would not leave a coffee-toaster (that's what it really is) like the Hottop unattended (the instructions, rightly, profusely warn against leaving it unattended whilst roasting), hence any hints that the roaster would be, in any way, "automatic" would be a misguidance, rendering any such advantage theoretical in nature only.

I use my handwritten roasting log to aid me in predetermining how, to what degree of roast, I wish to go, not any "saved" on-board programme.

If I'm not mistaken, the latest "hi-end" version of the Hottop costs about half the price of an average laptop over and above that of the basic model. To me that is ..ridiculous.

What I bought, in the Hottop, is a piece of well thought out stainless steel machinery that will, hopefully, stay with me for quite a number of years; not a "computerized" gizmo.

Only my 2 eurocents, of course...
Paul

+1

What I meant was not that I could leave the machine do the roasting itself, but that it would for instance vary the heat output itself with regard to the segment length and temperature setting vs completely manual operation on the B.
In fact, at the beginning of my interest in Hottop I was decided to get the B, but I was advised against it:

trust me the B not as all singing as some say). Sure
you have control but I didn't think it reacted quick enough,
and I didn't think I was in control of the roast. And its one
minute segments on the P which is what you need to be honest to
react to what's happening in the roast.

So that's why I ask about sophistication etc. Does the P vary the heating output itself or just cuts it off when the temp is reached? If it doesn't vary then I'll get the B, the P programmability in 3-minute segments would be then useless for me.

Pawel

In a perfect world, I would like my basic model to have 2 manual toggle switches. One would switch the fan on/off and the other would switch the heater on/off. This would give me the ability to stretch or coast the last stages of the roast.

The relative humidity in my house is pretty much 55 - 65% throughout the year. Unfortunately, I have to roast in the garage, where the RH can be between 50 and 95%. Looking thru my logs, I've found that Central Americans like, Dattera and Barahona, can have 1st crack delayed by 1 minute, if the RH is 20% higher.

With the Ethiopians Haraar, Yirg and Sidamo, this delay could be 30 seconds. Monsooned Malabar however, is a bean that seems to have a mind of it's own. If there was a clear pattern to humidity and 1st crack delay, then a programable profile would be a neat idea.

Sometimes there is no pattern and the log figures make no sense at all. It's possible that ambient temperature plays a part - the temperature where the beans are stored (in the house) or the temperature of the garage. Conclusion : if you are roasting indoors, a programable profile is a good idea. If you are roasting in the garage, I suspect you will be over-riding the (expensive) profiles and going into manual mode. The Hottop, like all small sample roasters with a 225gr load, works great, in a fairly stable environment.

QC

In my opinon, controls don't matter much on a roaster if you can't measure the bean mass temperature in real time. The closest I've come to it on a home roaster is the HT with digital display. It measures the temperature "some where," I don't know where, but with that information I can at least reproduce roasts with little problem.

How about installing a thermocouple into "P", not "B"? Probably it may look quite crazy at first sight,... while the "B" lets you adjust the % output of the heat... but then if the "P" controls the heat output according to the set temp (yes I know the temp *somewhere* ) then it seems to me it would give more repeatable and predictable results then some manual on-road jump-up on the "B".
Maybe I'm just obsessed, but the more I think of it, the more I like the "P".

Pawel

Sorry for being daft, but can someone just explain the B and P versions?
I see an historic model (standard)
a new digital panel version a a huge cost extra

AND a possible new version of the standard hottop to come in Europe?

Which is what?????? Help appreciated as I may buy one when or if the price is more sensible.

Here you have all Hottop models, the models in question are the two on top of the page.
On the Chang Yuan page the two current models are not listed at all, however they replied to my inquery about the "P". Hasbean (the only european seller) doesn't sell the "B".
Anyway, I think I'll stick to "P". For what reason shall I ever think of turning on the fan for 30 seconds at half its speed?

Pawel

The HotProg as I call mine is certainly not a 'walk away, come back and find the coffee all bagged' machine.
But PROVIDED YOU VAC OR OTHERWISE CLEAN THE MACHINE OUT BETWEEN STINTS you don't need to stand over it the whole time.
In an average 18.something minute roast there are 4 points when you absolutely need to be there.
1. When preheat ends and the pinger tells you to load the beans
2. When the machine reaches 212 you need to press Enter to over-ride the machine from dumping (a failsafe for the American market I fear)
3. It's handy to be there at first crack and thereafter your eye and brain take over from the auto gizmos. I make a point of standing over the machine for the last 5 mins of the roast.

I have 5-6 roasting profiles which I either devised or borrowed which I use more than the rest and looking back over a year's roasting notes I find them remarkably consistent (+/- 20 secs) in getting the desired result. Some work better than others with different types of coffee and different degrees of roast. Most are on this forum somewhere.

A friend who knows nothing about roasting coffee was watching me and said "it's great, that in the end it's still a craft process" and that's pretty much how I feel. That said I love my HotProg and am glad I paid the extra. Yes, of course you could do everything manually, make careful notes of every stage and save yourself a few hundred squids. But I prefer to let the machine handle the note-taking and that, plus its simple 'tweakability' are, for me, the main value of the Model P.

bluevalentine wrote:I have 5-6 roasting profiles which I either devised or borrowed which I use more than the rest and looking back over a year's roasting notes I find them remarkably consistent (+/- 20 secs) in getting the desired result. Some work better than others with different types of coffee and different degrees of roast. Most are on this forum somewhere.

Yo Val where've you been? 6 month sabatical is way too long - unless it was a health farm? I digress, don't you find humidity impacts profiles. It gives my Hottie swings of up to 60 secs. Of course, you may be allowed to roast indoors? - hurrumph.

QC

Thank you for great feedback!