Matt finish or gloss ?

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Matt finish or gloss ?

Postby Richard » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:26 pm

I noticed that under certain roast conditions that I can't always repeat I get shiny beans. Ok, if you push the roast into second crack it seems quite normal to get a shiny finish but I'm getting a shiny finish with a medium roast and I'm not sure if this is good or bad.

I think this shiny finish is as a result of a fairly fast roast time but at least a fast second half.

Let me explain, this occurs only when I'm using my popcorn roasters, I have one at 800 watts that tends to be a little underpowered and one at 1200 watts that is a little over powered so I start the roast in the small machine until first crack at around six minutes then throw the beans into the larger machine at about ten minutes but stop before they start to crack again.

They usually get nice and shiny with a medium brown colour, tastes good but everything tastes good when you still have flash-backs of supermarket coffee.

So, shiny beans or slow the roast down for a matt finish ?
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RE: Matt finish or gloss ?

Postby lukas » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:56 pm

I do not yet understand the conditions to this either. When I roast only with gas on the stove-top thing, I almost always get matt beans. If I use the heatgun to assist in heating, most often I get more shiney beans.
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RE: Matt finish or gloss ?

Postby farmroast » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:01 pm

shiny finish at a light to med. roast is probably being caused by a temp. that is a little too high and a little short on time to degree of roast. Generally,start a little slower(warming/drying phase) ramp up to 1st then back down to finish. Crack open one of your shiny beans and you should find the middle will be lighter in color. In the cup you will get a bit of a grassy flavor.
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RE: Matt finish or gloss ?

Postby Bertie_Doe » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:36 pm

On one occasion, I ended up with a batch of beans that was medium dark, with a glossy sheen. I was roasting M.Malabar, which I usually take to a dark roast, with a glossy sheen. Unfortunately I pressed the eject button instead of the +20 seconds button.

I quickly removed the bean tray, to stop the air-jets from cooling the beans, in an attempt to keep the beans hot and maybe stretch the roast a little. The result was a much lighter roast, with sheen and they tasted pretty good. Must try it again sometime.

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Re: RE: Matt finish or gloss ?

Postby Richard » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:01 am

farmroast wrote:shiny finish at a light to med. roast is probably being caused by a temp. that is a little too high and a little short on time to degree of roast.


That's about right though I'm not sure it's detrimental, the beans I opened were actually darker on the inside and in this latest case the beans were indeed Monsoon Malabar though I get this glossy finish with most other bean types.

This morning I had a Hefty crema, it's a first for me. Usually I've been getting just a thin smear but this mornings brew was thick enough to sip, down to the Monsoon Malabar rather than any emerging 'Barista' from what I gathered. :D

Thanks guys, it's brilliant to be living this far west amongst sheep and hairy-assed farmers and be able to discuss the finer points of coffee making with people from aroiund the world.

Awesome.
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Re: RE: Matt finish or gloss ?

Postby Bertie_Doe » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:21 am

Richard wrote:
farmroast wrote:
This morning I had a Hefty crema, it's a first for me. Usually I've been getting just a thin smear but this mornings brew was thick enough to sip, down to the Monsoon Malabar rather than any emerging 'Barista' from what I gathered. :D

Awesome.


Where abouts do you pull the shot, during the on-cycle or during the off-cycle?

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Postby Richard » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:27 am

Ah.

Good question, I wait for the light to go off so presumably this is the off cycle.

Doing it wrong am I ? :oops:
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Postby Bertie_Doe » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:55 pm

Richard wrote:Ah.

Good question, I wait for the light to go off so presumably this is the off cycle.

Doing it wrong am I ? :oops:


No the off-cycle is best. Doing it during the on-cycle can be a nightmare. The on-cycle lasts about 25 seconds, also a good pour lasts 25 seconds. So doing a shot during the on-cycle means you are subjecting the coffee to rapidly increasing temperature water.

The advantage of the off-cycle, is that the rate of temperature change is happening much slower, because the off cycle is much longer. I believe the off cycle on a Silvia is about 13 minutes.

How long after the light goes off, do you pull your shot?

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Postby Richard » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:09 pm

cumberpach wrote:How long after the light goes off, do you pull your shot?

Quentin


Ok-Ok, I got it, I am doing it wrong. I'm pulling the shot (Have to get used to this new terminology) immediately the light goes-out but I'm fairly sure I should let the steam out first. Yes ?

I have also learnt the difference between everything being nice and hot and not being nice and hot, initially I was bringing my cooled-off cup of coffee back up to temperature for drinking by using the steam wand then I thought, "If those 'buggers' could see me now I'll be in trouble". :D

I found it isn't that difficult getting the machine up to a better working temperature first thing in the morning.

So, how am I doing ? certainly better than my pal who introduced me to espresso.
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Postby Bertie_Doe » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:36 pm

Don't worry about the steam wand. What's happening is this ; The problem with all single boiler machines, is temperature overshoot. In other words, the temperature in the boiler continues to climb, even though thermostat switches off the boiler and you see the light go out!!

This is because the element gets way hotter than the surrounding water and still continues to kick heat an energy for perhaps a minute into the off cycle. What you are doing is pulling you shot at the hottest part of the Silvia cycle. In theory, your espresso should taste a liitle bitter and the crema looks a pale cinnomon colour.

In this thread http://tinyurl.com/2sh47p Dan and Bellis is finding that 2 mins into the off-cycle is getting the best result. A lot of people find that a lighter roast requires a hotter brew temperature and a darker bean prefers a slightly cooler brew. I suspect that Ozbean who is finding the best shot at 7 mins into the off-cycle, is probably using a darker roast. Also no 2 peoples taste buds are the same, so everyone will have their own 'sweet temp/time spot.'

This is what I suggest you do. As soon as the light goes off, wait one minute, start grinding and tamping, distribute, lock the p/f into group and pull the shot. Try and memorise the taste.

Repeat the above at 2 mins after light goes out. Next time try at 3 mins and so on. You may find your sweet spot is 5 or 6 mins later. But this is what surfing (or in this case 'Reverse Surfing') is all about. i.e. tasting the shots at different time intervals, after the light goes out.

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Postby Richard » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:45 pm

Thanks Quentin :D

Jeez, I hope I don't get visitors looking for an espresso. I'm afraid I'll have to drag-out the press-pots, having said that, I'm still getting a good cup of coffee and today decided that whilst I brewed a good cup with a press this Silvia gives me more reliable-repeatable results even if I draw a shot at the wrong part of the cycle.
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Postby Bertie_Doe » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:18 pm

Richard wrote:This morning I had a Hefty crema, it's a first for me. Usually I've been getting just a thin smear



Richard wrote:Thanks Quentin :D

Jeez, I hope I don't get visitors looking for an espresso. I'm afraid I'll have to drag-out the press-pots, having said that, I'm still getting a good cup of coffee and today decided that whilst I brewed a good cup with a press this Silvia gives me more reliable-repeatable results even if I draw a shot at the wrong part of the cycle.


:twisted:
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