Espresso blend n°1

[steves]

Indeed I will. I only put them in as links because the FAQ said there wasn't a way to upload images to TMC at the moment (I know other posts have images in but wondered if this was something only some members could do, or by special arrangement with you or Raf).

Anyway, enough rambling - shall I start a new topic or repost it here?

[phil]

the FAQ said there wasn't a way to upload images to TMC at the moment

Huh? Not so. Please point me to this erroneous info.

What would be best is to edit your previous post. Are you OK with that? There a little "edit" button to the top right of each post that *you've* made in every thread. I can edit any post, and a member can edit any post they've made themselves.

Let me know if you need more help.

[steves]

Okay, will have a go at editing it.

Errouneous info is in FAQ>Formatting and Topic Types>Can I post Images?

[phil]

Oh dear what nonsense. I'm sorry, I'm not responsible for those FAQ - they come with the forum code. I need to upgrade the forum soon, so I'll look into whether the PNphpBB2 guys have sorted that. If not I'll edit the file myself. That piece of info is just plain wrong - that's what the attachment mod is for.

Thanks for pointing that out Steve.

Phil

[steves]

Not a problem.

Anyway, I've now edited the message as you suggested, so everybody should be able to see the images. I've also updated it as I've now tasted the coffee, so if you could all have another look and give me any comments, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[steves]

noone?

This worked for skirk in another thread, so thought I'd try it... Somebody help me out please

I think I'm probably not roasting for long enough (fairly acidic, fruity but thin, dry looking beans) but am having more than a little trouble identifying first crack (let alone second which I'm probably not getting to anyway).

I'll try running my popper without turning it off - what sort of times might I expect for first / second crack do you think?

Steve

[zix]

This worked for skirk in another thread, so thought I'd try it... Somebody help me out please

Coffee Patrol is on its way now, sirens blaring.

I'll try running my popper without turning it off - what sort of times might I expect for first / second crack do you think?

If you were to roast outside in winter, they might never get into second. It depends on outside air temp and on your popper... Seems to me I get to first crack within 4-5 minutes with my popper. Your mileage may vary.

I use it in the kitchen, under the exhaust fan, standing on the stove. The exhaust fan is on max, the kitchen door is closed and I have opened a window or a door in another room of my flat. This way, the kitchen's air-pressure is lower than the rest of the flat, and the air must flow through the kitchen's exhaust fan. Thus, a lot less smell in the rest of the flat). The popper´s plastic top "lid" has melted now, so I put something else on top of the popper (I took the plate of an old unused springform pan and bent it into a U-shape, then turned the U upside down and put it on top - just a quick fix so I don´t get the hot air and all the chaff straight into the exhaust).
Why all these details? Because I want you to know that I perceive coffee roasting as a hot and smoky experience. Expect this, even when only roasting 100g. In the oven you can roast 300-500g, and above 300g you will have the London fog all over again in your kitchen unless you have a very powerful and effective kitchen fan. Keep the door closed as much as you can, and smoke won´t be a big problem.

3. The beans smell very nutty, or perhaps rather more malty

Typical smell of freshly roasted beans. I love it!

Update - after their statutory 48 hours (nearly) I gave them a try.

Feel free to try next batch at once, after 12-ish hours, and after 24-ish. It is good to learn how the taste changes. Some beans taste lovely immediately, even for espresso, and if you drink drip coffee, turkish, moka or vac pot (Cona, Santos et al) coffee, leaving the beans for 48 hours may be just a waste of time. Depends on the bean though, but many common singles taste great on the first day with these brew methods: santos, colombia, ethiopian dry processed (yirgacheffe), antigua, kenya...

No visible signs of oil on the beans - quite dry looking. Consistent colour throughout when broken. Slightly pungent smell of baked lemons. When ground the coffee definitely looks a little on the pale side. First shot in 22 seconds, with plenty of crema, but a little over-extracted. Taste - lots of acidity and fruitiness but quite thin.

Thinness is probably because of overextraction, and perhaps also worsened because of the light roast, which you have verified yourself by describing it as "on the pale side" when ground.
The smell of 48+ hours old beans in a blend made for espresso isn´t always what one would expect, but I think you described a typical one well.
The consistency of color in the bean may be of interest, and also the evenness of color, but is in itself no certain proof of quality of taste for a home roaster. For now, don´t worry about it at all, and for Gods sake don´t throw away something until you have tried it, even if it looks uneven or bad. It may not be bad at all, just a funky lookin´ kinda bean. Remember, the pope has blessed those beans (sic!) Every little bean is sacred... For a commercial roaster, it´s a different story.

1. Do beans continue to darken after they've been roasted and are cold?

I often think they seem a bit lighter in color. Depends on bean I suppose. If you have slightly oily beans, the oil may creep back into the beans, giving them a silky sheen. You might perceive this as a darker color, depending on your lighting conditions.

2. Does acidity reduce with a darker roast (ie is this, and the other things, a sign that I've under-roasted?)

Yes, darker roast=>less acidity, more pungency. If it is too acidy for your type of extraction (i.e. espresso), then you should roast further into second crack.

3. Will it help if I continue a roast until I get smoke and see what that gives me?

Yes. Roasting into second crack generates smoke, even with only 80-100g of beans, as when using a popper. Stretch the roast and see what happens. Don´t worry about the smoke.

4. How much of a smell of roasted coffee should I be getting? (Didn't seem to get much)

That depends on how much you roast and how long you do it. Judging from your pictures, you haven´t roasted into second crack.
Also, a single origin is easier to roast than a blend. Why? Because different origins have different roast profiles, meaning they reach first and second crack at different times. Please try this: by a Colombia or a Santos, a good quality batch but it doesn´t need to be great. Both of these can take a dark roast and are good behaving beans. Turn off the vacuum cleaner so you can hear the cracks! You can clean up the mess afterwards, its not a big deal. Roast into second crack. If you really want to hear how the different cracks sound, you can roast in the oven (wanna know more about that, just pm me.)

[steves]

Brilliant. Thanks for this. Don't think my wife will appreciate the sound of the popper right now though. I'll update you when I've had another go.

Steve

[zix]

Brilliant. Thanks for this. Don't think my wife will appreciate the sound of the popper right now though. I'll update you when I've had another go.

Steve

Oops, that reminds me... naahh, I´ll do it tomorow too. BTW, I prefer the heatgun+bowl roast, and it can be done outside - but the popper is quicker. Have fun!

[steves]

Oh, I meant to ask, would Colombian Medellin Excelso be okay?

[steves]

Okay. Two roasts later and I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel. In fact, I would be able to if it weren’t for the smoke.

Please try this: by a Colombia or a Santos, a good quality batch but it doesn´t need to be great.

I’m onto this, but please see my previous post. In the meantime, I’ve been using up the rest of my Espresso Blend No 1.

I must say I took most of what you said on board, and then ignored it

Firstly, I thought I’d try another batch outside but not keep turning the popper on and off. After five minutes of not much happening (again) I brought the popper (still plugged in and running) inside. This improved things, but I bottled it again, not knowing whether the noise was the beans bouncing in the popper, or was it second crack? I stopped it too early again

So I tried again – this time indoors from the start. I fared much better. First crack was fairly spread out and difficult to say exactly when it started and ended. I had been using a glass lid to redirect the hot air / chaff away from me. Having looked at the I-Roast posts and seeing the profiles showed higher temperatures later on, I decided to use the glass lid to restrict the airflow through the popper and increase the temperature. Lo and behold, second crack – much easier to spot than I had imagined. I let it continue for a little while, then dumped the beans to cool them. The cracks were now even more audible. Excellent

I tried it as soon as it had cooled and though I can’t taste much at the moment, it was much more what I was looking for. So there is hope thanks to the Coffee Patrol!

So what have I learnt so far?

1. I'm finding it a lot easier to under-roast than over-roast - having read all the stuff about dimmers etc, I think I was paranoid that things were going to get too hot, over-compensating made things too cold.
2. Second crack is easier to spot than I thought it would be - (it must have been what I've seen desribed as "rolling" by this stage)
3. Kitchens should have doors, not two openings significantly larger than a standard door...

So I have a long way to go, but at least I'm on the way now.

[RobC]

Just to throw a spanner in the works the picture show fine on my xp sp2 3.06ghz packard bell using Firefox (thanks Phil!).

Returning to coffee topic rather then computers, as far as SteveS goes:-
The longer coffee is roasted the darker the bean and oils will start to be pulled from the inside to the outside. Classic Italian roasts are often dark and oily. The Oil represents quite a large amount of the taste of the bean, and is better on the inside then out, so darker roasts are not always the ideal. Lighter roasts with not much oil are much more preferable for many origins.
Acidity can be due again to origin of the bean, longer roasting can cause bitterness which is undesirable. If you plan to use your beans as an espresso - blending them (after roasting) is always better - individual origins can have too much of one taste - by blending you can balance this to create a smooth brew. As I think you have already discovered - you can not blend greens as they will roast at different rates.
If you roast until smoke then there is a good chance the next visitor to sample your coffee will be the fire brigade

[zix]

Sorry, I haven´t had any telephone or internet connection for over a week. We had a storm, big time, over here and I was indirectly affected by that.

If you roast until smoke then there is a good chance the next visitor to sample your coffee will be the fire brigade

And they will feel the smell before entering, so prepare yourself with many cups and steam some milk for the potential cappa drinkers
Regarding not being able to roast blends, I think many people worry too much about their roasts, as you can tell by some of my previous posts. A really fresh (24-48 hours, up to about 6 days) home roast will be better than most anything you can buy (except for really good locally roasted or expensive specialty blends). Even if it isn´t perfectly roasted. Even if it is blended before roasting. Even if it looks "funky".
I pre-blend most of the time because it would drive me crazy to roast 3-6 singles in a row before being finished with a new batch. It really works fine, I promise! A blend *will* have prolonged first and second cracks, but if you "stretch" the roast, a.k.a. let the beans ramp up slower to your preferred roast degree (this is possible with the oven, the popper, the hg+bowl, and of course the drum roast - which has longer roast times "built-in") it usually works out in the end.
Of course there are exceptions: any robusta is better to roast on its own as it usually reacts much slower than the arabicas, and it needs a dark roast. Some of the aged beans, The Monsoon Malabar in particular, do not behave at all like the non-aged beans, and is often, but not always, easier to roast on its own. I recently tried a blend with Colombia, Moka Sana'ani, MM and a little Kenya (100g/100g/40g/15g). Roasted the MM separately in the popper (around 90g, took away half of the MM to drink as single origin...) and the rest with the heatgun in one go. Worked fine!

Edit: P.S. Really, when one roasts into second crack with a popper there will be smoke, RobC. Maybe not with the I-Roast and the other commercial fluid-bed roasters with smoke filters though, I have never used one. D.S.

[zix]

I must say I took most of what you said on board, and then ignored it

Lovely! I like that method too when learning something new, one needs to know where the limits or the boundaries are at first, and the best way to find out is to break or overstep them and see what happens (well, maybe not when learning how to drive...).
Edit: Oh, I forgot: that colombian Excelso bean will be great. Go for it! Excelso is good quality and larger beans, I think.

So what have I learnt so far?

1. I'm finding it a lot easier to under-roast than over-roast - having read all the stuff about dimmers etc, I think I was paranoid that things were going to get too hot, over-compensating made things too cold.
2. Second crack is easier to spot than I thought it would be - (it must have been what I've seen desribed as "rolling" by this stage)
3. Kitchens should have doors, not two openings significantly larger than a standard door...

So I have a long way to go, but at least I'm on the way now.

Oh yes you are.

When people visit our home for the first time and I force a single or a double on them, I usually don´t tell them about my little bent roasting hobby. It is interesting to hear what they say, because (most of the time anyway) the way they react is the same way I reacted myself the first time: "wow, where do all those flavours come from? This is... spicey."
This new taste dimension can also be a problem, because one sometimes may think that a very strong bean character is the result of a mistake in roasting or preparation. Instead, it is one's palate that needs to be educated. How does this or that bean taste when it is really really fresh (1-6 hours)? How does it taste after 24-48 hours? After 3-4 days? After a week?
It is like when you tried scottish single malt for the first time... suddenly Ballantine´s became totally flat! To me, it is so much fun to be able to try all those different kinds of beans in blends, as singles, as drip coffee, moka, vac pot, presso and espresso - and every time one learns something new. Fun fun fun!

[steves]

Just to throw a spanner in the works the picture show fine on my xp sp2 3.06ghz packard bell using Firefox (thanks Phil!).

Well, if they'll show on a Packard Bell, I imagine we should all be okay but seriously, I edited the post and uploaded the images, so there shouldn't be any problems.

Returning to coffee topic rather then computers

Oh, alright then...

The longer coffee is roasted the darker the bean and oils will start to be pulled from the inside to the outside. Classic Italian roasts are often dark and oily. The Oil represents quite a large amount of the taste of the bean, and is better on the inside then out, so darker roasts are not always the ideal. Lighter roasts with not much oil are much more preferable for many origins.

But surely this is a matter of taste? Or is roast "x" always better for bean "y" for everybody?

blending them (after roasting) is always better - individual origins can have too much of one taste - by blending you can balance this to create a smooth brew.

Hmm. Well I have to disagree with you there.

It is like when you tried scottish single malt for the first time.

Well, if you hadn't brought whisky into it, then I would've! (Incidentally, I've been particularly enjoying Inchgower in recent months. "...with a hint of salt" the label proclaims. Much more than a hint if you ask me... Anyway...

To use some other comparisons, is a choir or orchestra always better than a solo artist? One of the things I enjoy about a single malt is its particular character, which is somewhat lost in blending.

Ah well, it's good to see that even in a community of reasonably like-minded people (about coffee at least) there are significant differences of opinion!

Steve