The TMC Grinder

[zix]

Ok, I'll admit it, I'm being pedantic.

That's what all this is about, so it is fine with me!

For example, my single basket weighs 2 grams less than double, or, take someone like Phil with a 2 group and 2 different pf's (if I remember correctly?). Or Raf's questions of suitability for a commercial environment, some places have more than one machine with different pf's and baskets.

Of course you are right! Aghh, another idea bites the dust.

Regarding spill, I very rarely lose anything. I grind into a small glass and then pour from that into the pf basket in one easy go.

This is precisely what we don´t know, until we know how much that sticks in the chute or the outer outlet (doser, trunk...). There is no way of measuring that unless we measure what is actually getting down into the portafilter.

Maybe we would/should be rethinking the designi of the exit chute to avoid spills?

I am not sure it is possible to avoid it totally. Static can be extremely hard to battle, and anyone that has seen grinds cling to the edges of a funnel knows that sometimes there is a heck of a lot in there.
Sod, this is hard..... hey! How about a doser with a scale? Shaped like a funnel, with a simple lid on top so it is easy to lift and see if something got stuck in there. Look at the Mazzer Mini E and imagine a scale on that funnel! The clever part is we put a little lid in the bottom too, so no beans can escape until we want them to. Like the bottom lid on some of the better hoppers. This way, static has a chance to dissipate (if it is a properly grounded s/s doser funnel) and we can still have the automatic stop when exactly the right amount of beans are ground, and then just pull the security lid aside, and awaaaaaay go the grounds into the pf!
Sorry, I got exalted but how about it? It just might work! Right? And it would solve the problem with taring - not needed anymore!
Anybody with a Mazzer Mini E could try it too.

[zix]

By the way, I think I meant "excited", not "exalted" above. See what happens when one gets exa... excited. When one gets ideas!... I mean...

Oh, and gouezeri, if you mean you weigh the grinds after grinding, I agree. That is the best way of knowing exactly how much that gets into the pf. Not that I can be bothered to actually do that every time - too much trouble for me. I admire your zealousness.

[zix]

Oh, and after all this rambling I realize gouezeri already suggested a funnel with automatic weight control---
See what happens when one gets excited... Sorry Dom, it was your idea first! I still think it is the best place to put a scale, unless one does it manually after grinding.

In a real sense, therefore, we have a choice: either the grounds are weighed/dosed in a chute which releases them at will (but could be misused by some commercially as "storage"), therefore keeping your pf as hot as possible.

[Gouezeri]

Cool, that means that without realising I'd already suggested this, you came to the same conclusion! Your idea of a lid for the "funnel" where the grounds would be weighed is a good idea as this would help to combat grounds stuck by static. The problem that may result is for the chute from the burrs to the funnel would need to be at as steep an angle as possible and this may result in the overall unit being much taller (though getting rid of a big hopper is a good start).
Dom

[Beanie]

With the importance you place on the weight of grounds in the PF, does this mean you have absolutely no waste when levelling/tamping?

Also, one think I've noticed is that depending on the fineness of the grind, there is definitely a difference in the height of the tamped grounds in the PF. I've largely ignored this and kept to weighing my beans (I know, not precise enough for you). So, does this mean there's absolutely no impact so long as the grounds:water ratio is the same?

Sorry for the silly questions.

[Beanie]

And of course, I won't bother with my stupid diagrammes now for obvious reasons.

Although, I did just cut & sand down a small plastic water bottle to fit snugly on the ridge of the PF basket right up to the funnel of the grinder dispenser and now I have zero mess... except when I'm levelling...

M

[jumper]

my 2 eurocents....... if you care enough to beat the crap out of your doser then you should care enough to learn when to turn of your grinder and clean it after your done for the day.

but i don't care enough so i just keep using my mini with doser they look so pretty

[zix]

Hey people, I promise after this message I won't nag any more about the bean weight feature for a while now - let´s not get stuck at that issue. The burr and chute construction are a lot more important to solve right now. A "funnel doser" which can weigh the beans and drop them down at will into the portafilter would be a great idea, and it can't be half as hard to get working as the burr/chute combo. There is plenty of latitude for experiments in shape, height and material for a "funnel doser". Bean_believers Coke container idea, for example - could be great!
Now, how about those burrs? I like the idea of conical burrs, if they are available in a quality that can take pro use. Letting the grinds fall straight down sounds very nice, and the conical burrs would do that naturally, so to say.

-----

With the importance you place on the weight of grounds in the PF, does this mean you have absolutely no waste when levelling/tamping?

Personally, once the grounds are in the pf - no, not a lot. But I am doing this at home, and have time to smooth the "pile" out with a finger without scraping the surplus off. I know this is often not the case in a commercial setting, where there are many other things to think of, and there will always be some coffee spill. I still think a barista at work would be better of with a doser - the weighing function should be optional, as has been suggested. This said, any café owner must welcome a grinder with less spill, right? Less cleaning, less coffee waste => less waste of time and money.

Also, one think I've noticed is that depending on the fineness of the grind, there is definitely a difference in the height of the tamped grounds in the PF. I've largely ignored this and kept to weighing my beans (I know, not precise enough for you).

Depends on who you mean with "you" - weighing is what I had in mind, only to have it done by the grinder instead of by me.
Personally, what I do at home right now, without access to a precision scale, is to estimate by eye (and smoothing finger...) how much there is in the pf, and adding or scraping away some if I didn't hit the target at the first try. I would like to do better than this, but can't be bothered to do the weighing thingy manually. This is why I want a grinder that stops automatically for me, and that uses weight measurement instead of a timer to control where it stops.

So, does this mean there's absolutely no impact so long as the grounds:water ratio is the same?
Sorry for the silly questions.

Not silly questions. Silly answers (at least from me) due to misunderstanding, possibly.
If one is grinding finer, one doesn't need as much coffee in the pf to get the same pour - and the other way around. That is why it would be great to be able to always grind the same amount, it makes it easier to dial in the grinder because one source of errors (inconsistency in grind amount) is gone.

[wang]

A silly suggestion for mini-e owners : is there any way you can teflon coat the grounds doser/chute? It is the most commonly used and test substance with the smallest friction coefficient in the earth, to avoid grounds retention. I'm not sure about the static electricity problem you might experience nor the grounds chute between the burrs and the main chute, but it's worth a try if you can convince some head honchos!

[Mathias]

zix

I've found conical burrs at expressoxxl (search for mahlscheibe). At alt.coffee Danny McNalty offered to help with generic burrs for Iberital (not a pro machine I guess). simonp found a source in UK for Iberital according to the thread "stepless grinder adjustment".

About dosing the grinds I have an idea to make a cup that can handle more then two shots of grinds with an upper rim that is very thin (almost razor sharp) and fits exactly into the basket just deep enough so it can be turned saftly. In that rim ther will be some kind of guides/armes that evenly distributes the grinds while the cup is turned while sitting upside down on the basket. My first try for those arms/guides would be in the shape of the thumb and index finger that you will see on the movie I found here:

http://gauperaa.techniche.net/stockflethsmove.wmv

The cup approach makes it easy to use a small scale directly under it...

[RobC]

Sorry everyone, missed this fantastic thread as I have been away all week, although I have shifted 8kg of Lavazza Super Creme beans to visitors to the Washington Green Stand at the NEC Spring Fair this week. Sunday was hectic, I cleared 1kg between 9am and 11.30 and that's alot of cappuccino foaming / latte steaming for one man and an Wega 1 group commercial. I have some musing on foaming for cappuccino that I may post a new thread for one day....

I have just tried to take all the posts in on the grinder, but think I will need to think over them and re-read tomorrow before I can make a serious conclusion. Lots of goods ideas, but I think I might need my angle grinder and brass scales to complete the look

One point of interest from this week, each day I had to keep making the grind finer as the day progressed - I presume due to the increase in temperature and humidity of the big halls. It was amazing how a nice slow extraction with deep mellow speckled Crema could turn into a underextraction with thin crema within an hour - re-active adjusting of the grind as I noted a drop in the extraction quality. Obviously the doser was always kept at a minimum so grind changes would show an effect quickly. This did make me think how many commercial outlets could experience a similar effect throughout the day, and would anyone react to it? The only problem I have with staff in outlets knowing how to change the grind is that they tend to then make the grind coarser to make coffee quicker - but a manager should really be keeping tabs on espresso quality.

Anyway the point is all the hard work on the perfect grinder could be undone when the other half turns up the heating in your kitchen and puts those really hard to dry in the dryer clothes on the radiator - leaving you wondering why your normal "perfect" grind setting now underextracts :-;