2 different grinds for pourover

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2 different grinds for pourover

Postby michel » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:45 pm

Grinded some beans for pourover this afternoon with the Zassenhaus handmill (see: www.home.zonnet.nl/michelenpetra/equipment.html for a picture...), and when the basket was full, I took some grinds between my fingers and noticed it was to coars. I had put the beans in the filter anyway... The second portion I grinded was a much finer grind, and these grinds went on top of the coarser grinds in the filter.
The outcome - when I poured water (about 90 degrees I think - lower than normal thanks to Eward...) over it - was surprising. For the first time the water did not stick in the filter but went through it quite quick... and for the taste, the finer grinds seem to have done their work, as the taste was full of aroma's and overall great!
(do you guys think it is possible to apply for a patent..? :wink: )
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Postby michel » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:50 pm

...addition...
I posted it, and thought at the same time about trying this with espresso too! Maybe this will be a new revolution in coffeetechnique! The coarser grinds will prevent the 'extremely fine grinds' from going through the basket, as the fine grinds can still give all their flavour to the water...

Am going to try this tomorrow!

Michel
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Postby Raf » Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:05 pm

Curious about this!
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

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Postby Sunnyfield » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:00 pm

Interesting to hear the result. Although I strongly suspect you will find your espresso above all bitter and probably just outright foul.
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Postby michel » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:07 pm

Did the experiment this morning. No difference was noticable other than if I had changed the grindcoarsnes a little coarser. So the espresso came out a little to quick, but the shot was drinkable...
Although I don't feel like experiment any further on this (it's difficult enough to make a good shot with Elektra) I still think that with some tweaking on the grinds, a 'new taste' could be found.

In a couple of month's (when I have a decent espressomachine again) I will take up the experiment.

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Postby Raf » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:55 pm

What do you think you'll buy?
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

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Postby michel » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:07 pm

Neku,
Giotto, Tea, Millenium or a commercial machine (new: Reneka, at the moment sold for only 1100,- euro) or a used machine (I prefer the Faema e61... but as it seems to be a collectors item... I'ts probably above my budget (and, if a commercial machine should enter our kitchen... I need permission from my wife too, which is not really complicated, but I want her to have some space to to work around too...)
I also have considered a Vibiemme domobar... but as it is not a HX machine, and I don't know if I will have Elektra next to the new machine (maybe just for frothing, in case of a Vibiemme...) I think in first instance about a Giotto (which is sold for about 1100 euro's...).

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see also: www.home.zonnet.nl/michelenpetra/michelsquest1.html
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Postby Raf » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:14 pm

FIY, I paid about 600 euros for my VBM (that's without VAT, though), and there *is* a (plumbed in) HX version of the Vibiemme Domobar: the Domobar super. If I ever upgrade, it'll probably be to the VBM Super or a second hand commercial.

Could you explain a bit more (one hears so little about the European prices and dealers of these things)? And, er, there would probably be a nice article in your experiences as a potential buyer!
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

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Postby Raf » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:18 pm

I spoke too soon: you already made an article! Would be lovely to have it on this site as well, though...

btw that Vibiemme that was for sale for 1400 euro is a HX machine: you can tell because it has two wands: one for hot water and one for steam. That price is ridiculous of course: you can get a new Domobar Super for less, see: http://www.koffie-thee.nl/index.html?ta ... iemme.html
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

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Postby michel » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:10 pm

Thanks Neku, now the Vibiemme is an option again... and I was just trying to eliminate some options...
I was not familiar with vd Weijden, thanks, although they are not really cheap, the site looks quit good.
BTW what do you think of this HX machine, sold for 1425 euro, made exclusively for a German and a Dutch importer... (as far as I know the HX element is not vertical placed but horizontally, thus having better temp-stability...(this could be the other way around)). 'Brand'-name: Bazzar:
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Postby Sunnyfield » Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:36 pm

Are the Bazzar machines not rebranded ECMs? You could also consider ECM, btw. I really like the Isomac Hexagon. If you have too much money to spend, have a look at Astoria espresso machines. The brass/copper art deco Astoria SAE2 is fantastic. Or the more simple Astoria CKX.
www.kaldi.com (browse around a bit)
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Postby HughF » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:12 pm

My dream machine is the Wega MiniNova with a rotary pump. I don't know who sells it near you but in the UK at 821 UKP it looks like my next machine as soon as I get steady work again. They seem to be known for solid reliability.

You might like a MiniNova particularly if you go for Americanos as the hot water ALSO is fed by an HX tube (not just the brewing water) i.e. no potentially stale boiler water is used (except for steaming). I would want to plumb it in for both direct mains water input and drain output - my Carezzas drip tray can hold only one drip at a time!

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
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Postby Sunnyfield » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:44 am

Hugh, you lost me. Do you mean that the MiniNova has three boilers (brewing, running hot water, steam)? Or is that normal for all HX machines? And why whould ONLY the steaming water potentially be stale?
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Postby HughF » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:33 pm

Two separate HX pipes (one for hot water, one for brew water) pass through one boiler (as I understand it). The duration of the trip in the HX tube through the boiler is carefully worked out so the water passing through the tube is heated correctly for its final use, i.e. less than the temperature of the boiler water used for steaming. If you already know this, my apologies.

So both hot water and brew water come directly from the water supply on demand (the volume of water in each HX tube is quite small). The boiler water for steaming sits in the boiler until all the older boiler water is used and replaced by fresh water which might take weeks in domestic use. Impurities in a steam-only boiler may also be concentrated as they will be left behind as "pure" steam evaporates away.

I have never tried an Americano so the attractions of the MiniNova for me are the E61 group and rotary pump (which together seem to be particularly forgiving of duff grind/tamp technique, i.e. mine!), no delay in steaming, plumbed-in water supply and drain tray plus a good reputation for reliability - all at what seems to me a reasonable price. Given that I start from a Gaggia Carezza, the 3-way soleniod will be a time-saver also. The fact that the E61 head is partly enclosed is good too as several E61 machine owners have burnt themselves on the E61 head - and we may have up to 6 cats in our kitchen at any one time. Mind you, the cats are pretty smart at avoiding hot objects until they have cooled down a bit then they lie on top of or next to them and enjoy the warmth.

MiniNova in the UK :
http://www.pennineteaandcoffee.co.uk/mini.html (£699 + 17.5% VAT for the semi-automatic rotary version. BTW, I have no connection to that company.)

Cheers,

Hugh
Grinders : Macap MXK conical for espresso, Mahlkoenig Vario for Chemex, Macap MC6 (spare when our office was closed) for cafetiere, Zassenhaus Knee Mill for cafetiere when working away from home.
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Postby Sunnyfield » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:28 pm

I had no idea how an HX machine works. Very interesting to hear. Thank you! A rather technical and not so relevant question: Is it possible to run BOTH the hot water and the brewing water at the same time? I suppose you cannot!?
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