L’Anna further problems with electronics

Equipment, technique, or just drinking the stuff

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Postby GreenBean » Tue May 12, 2015 12:12 pm

Hi Cakey, I am sorry to hear that Anna is still having problems :cry: I do not have specific information on your machine and I do not recall the full story of your previous problems or the components that have already been replaced. Are you sure that the pressurestat and heater relay are in good condition?

I do not think that there is any logic to prevent the heater turning on during a shot but there is logic to prevent the heater turning on if the boiler water level is too low. In these circumstances the pump should run (as you are pulling a shot it will already be running) and the boiler fill solenoid open to refill the boiler. An intermittent problem with the boiler fill solenoid or its coil or the controller could result in the boiler not refilling and hence the heater remaining off.

I will keep my fingers crossed that the new solenoid/coil fixes the problem :?
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Postby CakeBoy » Tue May 12, 2015 2:16 pm

Thanks chaps :)

Told you to change the flowmeter Chris! ;) Had you heard that Iberital have discontinued the Anna? Scott mentioned it. Shame really, nice machines with a bit of a following.

We wondered that GB but the boiler fill seems to be entirely normal, it's the heating trigger that appears erroneous, but only at he end of a shot. It works perfectly with steam draw or during idling. Having said that, you make a good point, I cannot recall if she also doesn't fill when the green light issue occurs. There is definitely something related to the shot or head about all this, and it improved after the solenoid was descaled. As you say, let's hope the solenoid and coil change resolves it, they are not too expensive so it's worth just pulling them out. Failing that we will have to get the pstat checked as you suggest, it's one of the few original parts on her. I think the relay is a replacement already.

Soon, she'll be new!
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Postby CakeBoy » Sat May 16, 2015 4:58 pm

Another good descale seemed to have resolved the issue but it's back and a bit clearer.

She idles fine with the boiler light going on and off at the relevant times in respect of the dead band. Every so often when a shot is pulled or the steam wand used, she drops out of the bottom of the dead band and the boiler light/heater fails to come on.

This can only be rectified by powering off and on at the switch and mains and pulling water through the head. Eventually this yields rapid on and off behaviour of the boiler light/heater, then nothing. Eventually she comes back to life during one of the off and in cycles and water draws.

The boiler fills as it should at all times in normal operation and during this issue, so it's not linked as far as we can tell. New keypad/pcb, relay, brew head solenoid and coil rules out those parts.

We are now wondering if this is boiler pressure/temp probe or pstat related? Any insight please?
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
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Postby GreenBean » Sat May 16, 2015 6:41 pm

I am confused by some of the apparently conflicting information. From the information in your last post I would suspect a blockage in the pipe from the boiler to the pressurestat or a faulty pressurestat as the most likely causes. A blockage in the pipe could stop a sudden drop in boiler pressure being detected at the pressurestat but may allow the pressure to equalise during gradual changes in pressure whist the machine is idling. Turning the machine off and then pulling water may also allow time for the pressure to equalise allowing the pressurestat to detect the low boiler pressure.

I suggest you remove the pipe to check it is clear. I recall that you checked this several months ago when you were having similar problems and found it was clear then. If it is clear I would suspect the pressurestat is faulty. It is possible to fault find further by messing with a multimeter inside the machine but this needs to be done whilst the power is on so is far too dangerous to recommend. I would suggest it is better to replace the pressurestat.

A boiler level probe problem, probably due to scale, could cause a false indication of a low boiler level which could prevent the heater turning on but this would also run the pump to refill the boiler and, as you seem confident that the boiler fill is working correctly, this is unlikely to be the cause.

I believe that you replaced the controller several months ago so I am assuming that it is not causing the problem.

All these problems must be very frustrating. I hope you get it sorted soon. I know you have developed a great deal of affection for Anna over the years so I will not suggest taking her outside for a damned good thrashing a la John Cleese :wink:
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Izzo Alex Duetto | Gaggia XD 2 Group | Mazzer Super Jolly | La Cimbali Max | Solis 166 | Dalian 1 kg roaster | Hottop P | Hottop B | French Press (several) | Kettle modded, no really, added digital thermometer |
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Postby CakeBoy » Sat May 16, 2015 7:47 pm

Thanks GB, that makes a great deal of sense. I fear there has been a movement of scale generally as all this began after a descale, and presumably dislodging, so we will get the pipe checked again. Unfortunately, my fault finding processes are no longer what they were and I am immensely grateful for your clarity of thought.

Oh, I so love that John Cleese moment. I remember laughing uncontrollably at it as a child. I now commiserate with his frustration, whilst laughing! :)

Thank you so much.
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
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Postby CakeBoy » Sat May 16, 2015 9:15 pm

Update. Thank you GB. The pipe was still clear and there was no evidence of scale dissolving when placed in a descaling solution, so it seems pstat. Fingers crossed we finally get there :)
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
International muffin blagger

Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
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Postby GreenBean » Sun May 17, 2015 7:14 am

I have my fingers crossed as well. :?
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Izzo Alex Duetto | Gaggia XD 2 Group | Mazzer Super Jolly | La Cimbali Max | Solis 166 | Dalian 1 kg roaster | Hottop P | Hottop B | French Press (several) | Kettle modded, no really, added digital thermometer |
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Postby dr.chris » Mon May 18, 2015 9:28 am

To be honest this sounds a bit like on of the sets of problems we had, when she was idling and then decided she was out of water (when she wasn't) and would go all flashy-lighty and not power up the boiler. That was when we (or rather the nice engineer) ended up changing the PCB again. The previous one was less than a year old which was a good reason for us thinking it wasn't the problem
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Postby CakeBoy » Tue May 19, 2015 4:00 pm

The new pstat has arrived but won't be fitted until she misbehaves again, she is currently fine of course!

We have tried three different pcbs will no improvement though I have to admit they worry me the most, all that heat and the button tension varies a good deal too.

We last replaced her pstat nearly six years ago, the first failed when she was four, so it's probably time. Interestingly, this fault is developing a trend now, she remains fine during idling but tends to fail under any load, either head or steam, so we are hopeful it's a slowly weakening pstat.
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
International muffin blagger

Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
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Postby CakeBoy » Wed May 20, 2015 5:49 pm

Chris, please could we ask a massive favour? Any possibility please that you could pull the left panel off and photograph the 13 wires on top of the pcb/power box for us? Will explain later. Many thanks :)
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
International muffin blagger

Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
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Postby dr.chris » Thu May 21, 2015 9:23 am

Hi Cakey - I know that one...

It won't be until this evening
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Postby CakeBoy » Thu May 21, 2015 9:39 am

That's fine Chris, much appreciated, life saver! :)
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
International muffin blagger

Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
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Postby CakeBoy » Thu May 21, 2015 12:10 pm

Chris, panic over but thank you so very much. Johnca has kindly photographed his and we had indeed transposed two wires. Shocking error, no photos taken prior, very stupid indeed.

All sorted now, she is finally back in good health. Please may we thank all involved with help on this thread and Scott who has been a saint sending parts and trying to plough through all this.

I think we basically ended up with the same sort of thing you had going on Chris with lots of false leads. The pcb didn't just fault out, it sort of died slowly and cast blame on the relay, solenoid and other potential issues. It wasn't until it nearly died completely this week that it became so obvious.

Meanwhile, the entire array of working parts except the boiler fill solenoid and the element (which was new last year) has been changed. She is in effect new again and you can taste it in the shots. Loads of abundant crema and so sweet. Scott suggested many parts decline slowly and it's hard to notice. I am sure in our case it was affecting temp stability. You noticed a difference in the shot quality too didn't you Chris?

Thanks again to all for the patient help and guidance. We knew a fair bit about Anna but this whole process has really polarised the way she works and her quirks. Valuable stuff indeed. Not in the least the part nomenclature which caused some confusion :)
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
International muffin blagger

Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
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Postby dr.chris » Thu May 21, 2015 12:42 pm

Congratulations Cakey. Yes you do appreciate the temperature stability when the boiler isnt jumping all over the place.

I'd also add that although it was the PCB that finally proved to be at fault it didn't mean that the relay for one didn't need changing.

In general I do find that from time to time the machine and user both need a bit of a reboot. Despite having better equipment than I have had before I still find what I am doing more inconsistent than I would like and it helps to be able to look for other opinions in places like this.

(The current issue seems to be the naked portafilter spraying coffee everywhere except the cup - I suspect its time to change the burrs on the grinder)

Oh and I do use the phone to take pictures of wiring before I dive in. Its such a useful trick
Iberital L'anna / Mazzer Mestre/ Iberital tamper
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Postby dr.chris » Thu May 21, 2015 12:53 pm

For future reference (already on my phone :) )
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anna pcb1.png
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