Looking to buy a machine in UK, second hand?

[chinery]

Hey all,

Inspired by the London Coffee Festival, I'm very tempted to finally buy a competent espresso machine. I currently have a Vario grinder, and I mostly use it for filters. I do have a Delonghi Cafe Treviso, which came from a charity shop for about £6! Probably enough said about that machine.

I know there's no great options for home users, especially as my budget only really goes to about £400. It seems like the Gaggia Classic and the Rancilio Silvia are my best (/only) bets. I'm glued to eBay every time a model that has already had a PID installed comes up. I'd really rather get a second hand one that is already modded than do it myself (especially because the PID kits themselves are hard to get hold of in the UK).

I can just wait for one to come up again. But I thought I'd ask around, is there any second hand market in the UK other than eBay? If anyone had one they were looking to sell, we'd both get a better deal doing it privately!

Alternatively if people have other suggestions in the budget range, I'm all ears! I would mostly be making espresso for myself (between 2-10 a week) and very occasionally milk drinks for guests/my other half/myself.

Thanks
Andy

[GreenBean]

Hi chinery, welcome to TMC I hope you soon have success in your search. Hopefully, someone with a suitable machine will be along to make an offer.

[KOLU]

Hi, also try looking into small commercial machines - sometimes they end up for very little money in exchange of needing overhaul or small repair.

[GreenBean]

Hi KOLU, welcome to TMC.

Hi, also try looking into small commercial machines - sometimes they end up for very little money in exchange of needing overhaul or small repair.

Thank you for adding this sound advice.

[bruceb]

Hi KOLU, welcome to TMC.

Hi, also try looking into small commercial machines - sometimes they end up for very little money in exchange of needing overhaul or small repair.

Thank you for adding this sound advice.

Ditto. I didn't offer it for fear of sounding like a broken record.

A 1-group LaCimbali café machine went for GBP200 on UK e-bay recently. All it needed was a portafilter gasket and the plastic handle for the hot water valve.

If you need more information on this let us know. Good luck!

[chinery]

Thank you for the replies and the warm welcome

I had considered a second hand small commercial machine, but (and here is where I reveal my massive ignorance) my main worry in this case is how I would plumb in the water supply (/drain). I live in rented accommodation for one so there isn't necessarily much I can do in terms of modifying the kitchen structure to make the water supply accessible, and there is really only one space where the machine will fit neatly (which isn't right next to the sink). Plus, I just would have no idea how to actually do it . Is it feasible in this case? Or are there some models which use a tank?

Thanks again!

[chinery]

Figured I would do a bit of research, rather than just mooching off you guys...!

The plumbed-in approach doesn't seem off the cards any more, it doesn't look as difficult as it could be. But I still think there might be a lot of practical issues. Our kitchen is very small, there wouldn't be any space below the machine to mount a pump or a filtration system (there is a washing machine there, but thinking about it, at least that would mean a water source!). Maybe these things would be able to fit on top of the counter, just... and with some rearranging (how to convince the other half...). Alternatively, using a big bottle of water (Waitrose essential is meant to be very good quality, and you can buy a 5l bottle for about £1) might work, but again it'll be tight.

So now I mooch... my question now is where do we go as home users in the UK for filtration systems (Brita?) and pumps (the websites use a lot of words I don't understand)?

Chances are I'll still end up waiting for a PID'd Silvia I think. Is it worth checking anywhere other than eBay?

(When we eventually move home to somewhere with more space I will definitely trade up to a plumbed in solution!)

[KOLU]

Yes! No plumbing in is needed to simple operation - just "throw" the inlet water hose into any container and fill it with water (filtered before - you don't need to have water line filtration system, simple filtration jugs are enough for beginning*). The same with drain - find suitable container and throw a hose inside. That's actually the way we brew espresso on 2 gr E61 Faema during summer festivals and open-air parties

* I recommend filtering even the bottled water in case it leaves any white specks after boiling. Not every bottled water is actually quality product.

[GreenBean]

….Chances are I'll still end up waiting for a PID'd Silvia I think. Is it worth checking anywhere other than eBay? ...

I sent you a private message yesterday with another suggestion. PM's are accessed through the menu at the top of the page. The specific machine I mentioned in the PM is not hand fill. As KOLU points out you can run a machine with separate water and drain tanks.

In your circumstances, with such limited space available, I think you would be wise to continue your search for a suitable hand fill machine.

[dr.chris]

Space and weight can be an issue. Our lovely Anna - a small commercial hand fill machine - still weighs in at 38kg and was enough to leave the worktops at our last house sagging over the years.

[chinery]

38kg wow.

It seems hand fill will be the way to go, as much as I'll have my eyes on a commercial one for the future! Absolute max would be 400x400x500 w d h in terms of size, but ideally comfortably below that (to avoid relocating the kettle and toaster...). I'll keep looking .

What do people think of the Fracino Piccino? My Espresso sell one for £550 which is pushing it, but probably doable as a combined birthday present with some of my own money...! Dual boiler sounds exciting. But do you lose espresso making capability? To put it another way, I'd happily pay £400 for good espresso and an extra £150 to be able to make good milk drinks. But if it's worse for espresso than the Silvia for instance, I wouldn't be as keen!

Thanks again for all the advice .

[GreenBean]

If you search for "Piccino" using the menu at the top of TMC forum pages you will see several threads with opinions on this machine but not much hands on experience.

One alternative, which you may wish to consider, is the Nuova Simonelli Oscar. The Oscar is very well thought of and is currently available in the same price range. If you search for "Oscar" you will see many threads with glowing reports from respected TMC members with years of hands on experience.

[chinery]

Thanks Green

I had come across the Oscar in my searches, it does look very comparable. Unfortunately, due to Fracino being primarily British and a significant portion of the Internet coming from the US, I can't find anyone directly comparing the two machines (who has tried both, anyway).

So the Oscar has a much bigger boiler (plus HX), whereas the Piccino has two small ones. Really not sure how that applies in practice though. The Piccino's boilers are the same size as a Silvia's, does that mean that it will suffer from temperature instability while making the coffee? I started trying to look into whether it was possible to set the temperature on either of these machines, and had no luck. I'm not really interested in varying it from shot to shot like a PID enables, I just want it to sit at 94 and deliver that consistently!

Plus, the two websites that offer the machines for £560, myespresso and coffeeitalia, seem to have terrible reputations. Where else even sells the Oscar? Sigh, I feel like I'm back at square one... maybe I should just stick to filter coffee...!

[sicinius]

Coffeeitalia is where mine came from. I got a 20% discount for scratches on the case it took me a week to find. No problems here.

[chinery]

Hi again,

Thanks for all the help here . I feel like I'm settling on the Oscar. You can get it imported from elektros.it for £600 with a bunch of mods already installed. With a bit of birthday money (coming up) I think I can justify that.

Just as I'm coming to terms with this decision, a PID modified Silvia pops up on eBay. Which I would've just bought outright a week or so ago...!

My lingering question is this: is there any chance a modified Silvia would be better than the Oscar at just making espresso? I feel like the temperature stability would be more easy to control with the PID. I know you can control it on the HX through careful timing of the cooling flush and recovery time, and it seems like if you do this repeatedly it's very stable. But the PID seems easier, at least to start the shot. However, does it drop in the duration of the shot, or is there another factor that might mean the Oscar can deliver better straight espresso? That's a loaded question trying to justify the purchase I'm know but seriously, I think it's worth the price difference to get the steam power, I just don't want to be moving downwards in espresso power since that's 66-75% of what it'll be used for.

Thanks again!