Another stupid question

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Another stupid question

Postby CakeBoy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:53 pm

E61 grouphead, showerscreen off. Should the water exiting the brewhead come via the slit in the centre brass section, the circular channel around the same brass section or both please?

Anna seems to have a lot of water exiting one side of the circular channel, some from the same channel almost opposite the ain flow and very little through the slit. The main flow is spitting out to the side as well.

We were wondering if this is normal but she is not level, abnormal and there is a gasket issue or something else.

Thanks :)
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RE: Another stupid question

Postby CakeBoy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:09 pm

On reflection, there appears to be steam as well as water flowing from the main stream on one edge. It is visible and can be heard.
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RE: Another stupid question

Postby lsjms » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:56 pm

Normal-ish overall flowrate? Steam suggests your flush isn't fast enough to cool the HX???

Should come evenly from the slots in the circular channel and maybe the middle (I think, can't actually remember if water comes out the middle) there is a hole in that slit.

I would certainly remove that part and check it's not fouled, it can get as cruddy as anything else in the pressure release path.
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RE: Another stupid question

Postby CakeBoy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:05 pm

Cheers Loz. Have the dispertion plate in my hand, it unscrewed without bother. Looks clean and crudless. Flowrate normal BUT sometimes starved and we think it is not pump starvation, nor is it a flowmeter issue as both replaced. Could it be an obstruction in the group given the sideways spray and steam sound?
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RE: Another stupid question

Postby CakeBoy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:35 pm

Scrap that. The flow is okay without the dispertion screen, though it takes surprisingly long to settle past the steaming hot 'dancing' stage. Going to soak the dispertion screen in descaler just in case.
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Postby GreenBean » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:37 pm

I have just taken my showerscreen off to have a look and, as lawrence says, the flow is uniform all around the outside of the dispersion disk. There may be a little water from the centre of the disk but I could not see any. On mine it does not spray out but rather forms a circular curtain of water.

I guess there could be an obstruction in the drilled hole supplying the water to the dispersion disk but I think it is unlikely as you descale it regularly. If it was obstructed you should see it spraying out without the dispersion disk in place.

As the dispersion plate is clean and crudless I guess it is or was fitted slightly off centre. Unless it is spraying from one side I would not expect that to cause a major problem. If it is of concern to you perhaps you could let the machine cool down to avoid scalding and then play with a cocktail stick in the side with the least flow to see if you can centre the disk better. If so then a little force in that direction may centre it without the cocktail stick. :?

Edit: I have just seen your latest post whilst I was composing mine. It sounds as though your problem is solved. :D
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Postby CakeBoy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:56 pm

Not sure it is GB, you may be nearer the mark with the positioning of the dispersion plate. The flow looks fine from the single hole beneath, though it s surprising hw long a cooling flush is required. The dispersion plate didn't appear to have scale issues but perhaps something from the hole was lodged underneath the plate. Will see after the descale :)
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Postby GreenBean » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:28 pm

I have never removed my dispersion disk before as I have not had any need to, I have just tried and failed. It seems to be fitted with thread lock of some sort and I do not want to damage it. :?

I can not find any drawings or photos showing exactly how it is designed and wonder if, whilst your disk is out, you could take a few photos of it from both top and bottom and, if possible, of the underside of the group with the disk removed?
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Postby CakeBoy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:36 pm

No problem. From reading around it seems they often do get stuck and a spot of WD40 does the trick. Ours was no problem. Perhas it was unseated?
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Postby CakeBoy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:16 pm

Okay, well she seems fine, even though the dispersion plate 'spray' remains. Certainly the water is flowing centrally when the showerscreen is in place. Perhaps the flow through the naked dispersion plate has always been this way? If so, it seems a bit anomalous to the act of even flow. Although the flow looks even and centered as it comes through the showerscreen, that is certainly not so because of the uneven tirade just behind the mesh which suggests very uneven flow rates presented across the area of the showerscreen. Interesting.
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Postby GreenBean » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:40 pm

Thank you for the photos. I do not have time now but will post a few of them to this thread tomorrow so that others can see the design of the dispersion plate.

Having seen the rather clever design I can see that it is very unlikely that the plate can be off centre.

I wonder if you are viewing the uneven flow whilst the water is still flashing to steam. This would result in uneven flow due to high velocity water/steam flowing down the duct to the dispersion plate.

If you are still concerned about this I suggest you remove the shower screen and check the flow from the dispersion plate whilst the water is cold. I think you will find it is very evenly distributed when cold. Once you have flushed sufficiently to avoid flashing to steam the flow will be the same as it is when cold.
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Postby CakeBoy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:08 pm

Ah, good plan. We will check that when she is cold tomorrow. If memory serves, she didn't used to be this ferocious sans showerscreen, but memory often fails. She was still spurting after a flush earlier, though possibly the flush was insufficient. For record, as you might expect, the spurt is directly opposite the water outlet hole on the head.

Photos below.
Attachments
Grouphead without dispersion plate.jpg
Grouphead without dispersion plate.jpg (34.27 KiB) Viewed 11011 times
Dispersion plate top.jpg
Dispersion plate top.jpg (29.09 KiB) Viewed 11011 times
Dispersion plate bottom.jpg
Dispersion plate bottom.jpg (25.39 KiB) Viewed 11011 times
Dispersion plate side.jpg
Dispersion plate side.jpg (32.68 KiB) Viewed 11011 times
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Postby GreenBean » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:27 pm

CakeBoy wrote:Ah, good plan. We will check that when she is cold tomorrow. If memory serves, she didn't used to be this ferocious sans showerscreen, but memory often fails. She was still spurting after a flush earlier, though possibly the flush was insufficient. For record, as you might expect, the spurt is directly opposite the water outlet hole on the head.

Photos below.

As you have descaled a few times recently, it is possible that previous restrictions (due to scale build up) in the thermosiphon circuit have been removed resulting in a higher group temperature for the same boiler pressure.

If you find that the flow is evenly distributed when the water is cold then I guess it is worth experimenting with lower boiler pressure to reduce the group temperature and the amount of flushing required.
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