Problem solving help please

Equipment, technique, or just drinking the stuff

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Postby bruceb » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:58 pm

CakeBoy wrote: I shall be sticking to the anatomy of muffins from now on :-)


Without a multimeter how will you measure the currants in your muffins? :?
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby CakeBoy » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:03 pm

GreenBean wrote:Well done Cakey. :D I hope Anna is soon back in top form.

CakeBoy wrote: ... I shall be sticking to the anatomy of muffins from now on :-)

I will keep my fingers crossed that your muffin oven does not let you down then. :? :wink:


The end of the world as we know it! :shock:

bruceb wrote:
CakeBoy wrote: I shall be sticking to the anatomy of muffins from now on :-)


Without a multimeter how will you measure the currants in your muffins? :?


Ask the voice of raisin of course :wink:
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Postby CakeBoy » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:20 pm

Bad news. The element won't arrive for a week! This could be the end chaps. An idiot cannot live on filter alone. Oh oh, I feel woosy. Thud :shock:
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
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Postby bruceb » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:38 pm

CakeBoy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
CakeBoy wrote: I shall be sticking to the anatomy of muffins from now on :-)


Without a multimeter how will you measure the currants in your muffins? :?


Ask the voice of raisin of course :wink:


This is not in the spirit of Ohm's Law! :shock:
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby bruceb » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:01 pm

CakeBoy wrote:Bad news. The element won't arrive for a week! This could be the end chaps. An idiot cannot live on filter alone. Oh oh, I feel woosy. Thud :shock:


Another victim of the E61 devil. I knew those machines were up to no good. :shock:

Well, never mind, this Guatemala Esmeralda restretto I'm drinking is sooooooo good. 8)
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby CakeBoy » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:11 pm

bruceb wrote:
CakeBoy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
CakeBoy wrote: I shall be sticking to the anatomy of muffins from now on :-)


Without a multimeter how will you measure the currants in your muffins? :?


Ask the voice of raisin of course :wink:


This is not in the spirit of Ohm's Law! :shock:


Indeed, it makes not a crumb of sense and I really have no idea watt I am on about ;-)

bruceb wrote:
CakeBoy wrote:Bad news. The element won't arrive for a week! This could be the end chaps. An idiot cannot live on filter alone. Oh oh, I feel woosy. Thud :shock:


Another victim of the E61 devil. I knew those machines were up to no good. :shock:

Well, never mind, this Guatemala Esmeralda restretto I'm drinking is sooooooo good. 8)


Oh the cruelty knows no bounds! She has already been out of action or poorly for over three weeks. The withdrawal symptoms are immense. I may need to weep for a few minutes if you will excuse me :cry: :cry: :roll: :wink:
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
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Postby CakeBoy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:48 am

An update. Anna is back to something like her old self now after several new parts and a month or so of being quite poorly.

The one thing that remains a mystery is pump pressure. Her two month or so old pump is set at 9 bar, however, we believe she is not operating at that pressure straight away. For instance, if she as been standing and water is drawn, a p/f manometer attached to the head will indicate she is slow getting up to 9 bar, taking 3 or 4 seconds to do so, but once she is there she will pull subsequent shots perfectly and reaching the prescribed pressure almost instantly.

This behaviour has been coupled with underpressure warning lights on her control panel during the above process and incorrect volumetric actuvity from the set quantities. It is clearly a pump or pump starvation issue as the pump is occassionally noisy as though it needs priming. It settles almost immediately. There do not appear to be any blockages but something is still not right.
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
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Postby GreenBean » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:03 pm

It is good to know that Anna is almost back to normal. :D The pump/pressure problem as described has me stumped. :( With an E61 I would expect a few seconds delay before full pressure is registered on a p/f manometer due to the preinfusion but this should also be experienced on subsequent shots. I might have suspected a problem in the pressure bypass valve but if foreign matter was stopping it seating I would expect to see the problem on subsequent shots. Is the new pump the same make and size as the previous pump?

The one issue which could cause most of the problems would be pump starvation, as you suggest, but you have already checked for blockages. It does not take much to restrict the flow on the suction side of the pump, especially if it is fed from a tank. It may be worth investigating this further. Is Anna plumbed in or fed from a tank? If it is fed from a tank do you have any filter on the inlet to the pump? If so could it be partially blocked? Are you certain that there are no partial blockages or restrictions in the inlet piping to the pump?
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Postby CakeBoy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:42 pm

She is fed by soft tubing with a regularly changed filter at the end from her internal reservoir. She is a true hand fill machine. Will get her checked again for blockages as starvation does seem to be an issue. Thanks again for all the hand holding. Poor old Anna.
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
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Postby simonp » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:07 am

CakeBoy wrote:She is fed by soft tubing with a regularly changed filter at the end from her internal reservoir. She is a true hand fill machine. Will get her checked again for blockages as starvation does seem to be an issue. Thanks again for all the hand holding. Poor old Anna.


Many moons ago when I first got the Rituale, I had some problems with water feed. If I remember correctly (which is questionable given my memory these days!), I had trouble getting enough pump flow to make the over pressure valve open. Eventually I took off the pipe end water filter and the problem went away so I stopped using them. Mind you maybe that explains my scale issues :roll:
Worth a try without the filter on.

The other thing I have had is the flexible feed pip getting crushed when the machine is put back together.
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Postby GreenBean » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:30 am

I agree with Simon. It is well worth checking that there are no kinks in the tubing and trying without the inlet filter. Some manufacturers supply hand fill machines with inlet filters and some without. My Duetto is supplied without an inlet filter and, if one had been supplied, I would not use it. I think damage to the pump is more likely to be caused by starvation than by foreign matter in the tap water.
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Izzo Alex Duetto | Gaggia XD 2 Group | Mazzer Super Jolly | La Cimbali Max | Solis 166 | Dalian 1 kg roaster | Hottop P | Hottop B | French Press (several) | Kettle modded, no really, added digital thermometer |
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Postby bruceb » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:14 am

It's a good idea to use pressure tubing wherever possible. It has either metal or textile braid to keep it from pinching on bends. I also use elbows where a bend occurs at the edge of a table, for instance. Inlet filters are an invention of pump manufacturers to assure that their stocks of replacement units get into service. They cause more damage to washing machines, dish washers, etc. than anything in the water lines might cause.
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby CakeBoy » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:57 am

Thanks all, we will get her checked for kinks and remove the filter for testing and report back. also Anna's current groupseal may not be fitting too well as her p/f seats about 30 degrees out to the left. She'll have a new one on tomorrow.
www.CakeBoy.co.uk
International muffin blagger

Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
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Postby boldham » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:31 pm

CakeBoy wrote:Thanks all, we will get her checked for kinks and remove the filter for testing and report back. also Anna's current groupseal may not be fitting too well as her p/f seats about 30 degrees out to the left. She'll have a new one on tomorrow.


May I ask where you bought the group gasket? I recently ordered one in the US that was advertised as 8mm E61 compatible and has slightly larger diameter than my existing. Enough so that I can't seem to get it in the head.
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Postby CakeBoy » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:46 am

From Scott at happydonkey.co.uk though I don't think he ships internationally. Try him and mention TMC (he is a member), if he can't help directly, PM and we should be able to get them sent in to you via a UK address. I think he has original showerscreens in stock as well whilst you are looking into it :)
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
Aerobie | eSantos | Zassenhaus | Bodum P/Over | Chemex | Hario Woodneck | Timer Filter
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