Problem solving help please

Equipment, technique, or just drinking the stuff

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Postby CakeBoy » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:42 pm

Removing the filter has resulted in the volumetrics working correctly most of the time but the pump is still starved when first used after sitting for an hour or so. We suspect there is a blockage somewhere and the filter removal is merely facilitating enough extra flow to compensate and allow the volumetrics to operate. Now to find the blockage.
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Postby GreenBean » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:19 am

After Anna has been sitting for an hour or so can you see if the water inlet line is still full of water? Could you have a small leak which is allowing it to drain and fill with air?
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Postby CakeBoy » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:25 am

Good call. Will get that checked and report back. Thanks :)
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Postby CakeBoy » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:08 pm

Okay, we had the above checks made and there does not appear to be an inlet issue. No obvious scale and the clear tubes seem to remain full.

The pressure under/over flashing light continues to be entirely random as do the volumetrics, suggesting under-pressure when it flashes? The HX was also descaled with an industrial strength mix twice and that made no difference. We now wonder if the flow meter may be a problem? It was cleaned out at the start of all the troubles but there is an electrical connection and perhaps that or (please no) the electrical side of things has gone?
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Postby GreenBean » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:28 am

I agree with you Cakey, it does sound like you have a problem with the flowmeter. You mention the flashing lights as an indication of under-pressure. I have no information on L'Anna but think it much more likely that the flashing light is indicating that the controller has not received any pulses from the flowmeter for a set amount of time indicating that there is a problem with the flowmeter. Your L'Anna manual should explain the meaning of the flashing light to confirm this.

I have never had a problem with a flowmeter so have never opened one but I believe it is simply a rotor turned by the water flow with one or more magnets embedded in the rotor. A sensor on the casing generates a pulse each time a magnet passes. The controller just counts the pulses to determine quantity of water dispensed.

A lack of pulses could be due to either the rotor being jammed by scale or other foreign matter such as thread tape or by a faulty sensor. Even though you have descaled a number of times I think it is still worthwhile opening the flowmeter up to have another look. It would also be a good idea to check the connections from the sensor to the controller.
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Postby bruceb » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:47 am

We have this problem on the flowmeters in the cooling systems of electron microscopes. Usually, a putting a few drops of hydrochloric acid in the water right at the flowmeter and letting it stand overnight takes care of the problem. Running warm descaler through it should also do the trick, assuming that lime buildup is really the problem. A normal descaling operation may not take care of this since the flow through the flowmeter is restricted and the descaler probably does not get in there at an adequate concentration. This is all pipe dreams, of course. The problem may well be muffin crumbs in the smirffilterport.
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Postby CakeBoy » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:00 pm

Thanks gents, it is a relief that it is hopefully just the flow meter. It was entirely stripped and meticulously cleaned out when the pump failed. There was no scale but it was soaked in industrial strength descaler whilst in pieces as a precaution. At the time, we were unaware that the pump had failed and were looking at flow meter issues.

I wonder now if it too had failed or if the harsh descaling as damaged the magnetic field? Either way, for a tenner or so it may be worth just changing it?
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Postby boldham » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:59 pm

CakeBoy wrote:Thanks gents, it is a relief that it is hopefully just the flow meter. It was entirely stripped and meticulously cleaned out when the pump failed. There was no scale but it was soaked in industrial strength descaler whilst in pieces as a precaution. At the time, we were unaware that the pump had failed and were looking at flow meter issues.

I wonder now if it too had failed or if the harsh descaling as damaged the magnetic field? Either way, for a tenner or so it may be worth just changing it?


I recently acquired a machine for parts. To the best of my knowledge, the flowmeters look like the same one in my Anna. I can confirm, but if you need one, you're welcome to it for shipping across the pond.
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Postby CakeBoy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:23 pm

boldham wrote:
CakeBoy wrote:Thanks gents, it is a relief that it is hopefully just the flow meter. It was entirely stripped and meticulously cleaned out when the pump failed. There was no scale but it was soaked in industrial strength descaler whilst in pieces as a precaution. At the time, we were unaware that the pump had failed and were looking at flow meter issues.

I wonder now if it too had failed or if the harsh descaling as damaged the magnetic field? Either way, for a tenner or so it may be worth just changing it?


I recently acquired a machine for parts. To the best of my knowledge, the flowmeters look like the same one in my Anna. I can confirm, but if you need one, you're welcome to it for shipping across the pond.


That is so very kind of you and I may yet take you up on it, though I think Scott at Happy Donkey may have found one for us and it will probably work out similar money with local shipping and allow Anna to be back up and running in a couple of days. Thank you so much though.
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Postby CakeBoy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:55 pm

Good news! A new flow meter dealt with the volumetrics and the pump starvation. After several ailments, Anna appears well at last :) Thank you to everyone for all the kind help and advice.
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
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Postby bruceb » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:48 pm

Pfew! Glad to hear that. Now we can all go to sleep again. :P :lol:
Congratulations. Enjoy the coffee :D
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby GreenBean » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:47 pm

Great news Cakey. :D
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Postby boldham » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:40 am

CakeBoy wrote:Good news! A new flow meter dealt with the volumetrics and the pump starvation. After several ailments, Anna appears well at last :) Thank you to everyone for all the kind help and advice.


That's great! Try not to catch up on all of the missed shots at once! :shock:
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Postby simonp » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:10 pm

As another been suffering machine issues all I can say is...YAY!! :D
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Isomac Rituale
Mazzer Mini
Mahlkonig Vario
Chemex
Aeropress
2 Bodum press pots
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Postby CakeBoy » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:08 am

It's so tempting to have more after the long dry spell boldham :)

Wish your woes were over Simon. We know only too well how disappointing it is to find more problems when you think you have it sorted. Fingers crossed another descale session sorts your Rituale.
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Iberital L'Anna 1 Gp Hand-Fill | Wega Orion 2 Gp | Bezzera 1 Gp | Rancilio Audrey PID | Spidem Trevi
Iberital MC2 Timed | Macap M4 DS & MXA DS | Mazzer SJ | Starbucks Barista Grinder (Dualit E60/Solis 166)
Pinhalense 2x500g Gas Batch/Sample Roaster | Gene Cafe | IMEX CR-100
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