Another Gaggia Classic upgrade!

[misalda]

Hi all,

looking to change my Classic, I've eventually given up trying to cure sour/bitter shots. I've changed thermostats, cleaned & backflushed with pulycaff etc, descaled the boiler(temperature seems fine). Tried various coffee's home roasted and bought all to no avail! I have had it for quite a few years with no problem and I use an Iberital doserless grinder and the problem has gone on for the last 6-8 months.

I only pull a couple of espresso's and a couple of milky drinks a day so the "level" of the machine is fine, the obvious replacement would be a Silvia but I like the look of the Fracino machines, particularly the Paccino but can't find much info or user reviews anywhere other than their website.

Anyone got any experience with one?

[bruceb]

The Paccino is a dual boiler machine, is available in a number of colors and costs about 700 quid. The boilers are quite small (~300ml), but for your use that should not be a problem. It's has a 3 litre tank and I don't think there is a kit available that would allow you to plumb it in. The machine draws about 2.5kW (=13 Amp fused line) and weighs about 15 kg. This is all from notes I took when the machine was announced some time ago. I don't think it has been on the market all that long. I think quite highly of Fracino machines, if that is worth anything to anybody.

[misalda]

Thanks Bruce, that's pretty much all I've been able to find out too. I know they make mostly commercial machines and that the early Piccino's had an issue with flexing around the group head but this was addressed with a strengthening plate. I know you are very experienced and I'm pleased you rate them as a company but I'm a little concerned no one seems to own one on the site, there was a similar post to this a couple of weeks ago received no replies either.

[bruceb]

If you have specific questions, or perhaps want to see a machine in action why don't you give Fracino a call. At least in the past they were very customer friendly and perhaps they can tell you where you can see a machine in action and speak with the owner.

[misalda]

I have more questions now... There is an offer on the manufacturers website offering either the Cherub or the Heavenly for the same price as the Piccino. I presume the Cherub and the Heavenly are the same machine in different covers.
They have a single boiler with an E61 copy grouphead 2.3L boilers 2.8Kw heaters and a hot water outlet.
As I said earlier I don't make a lot of drinks a day so generally don't leave the machine on.
On the surface it would seem to make sense to have two small boilers rather than one large one or am I misguided, any advice or opinion would be appreciated as I seem to be getting nowhere on the decision front

[bruceb]

Well, as usual, I have an opinion about this and it is, unsurprisingly, subjective. Using two smaller boilers is an attempt to correct for lack of mass. One, big, copper boiler and a massive brew head and heat exchanger are more expensive to manufacture than two smaller boilers. In theory, two boilers would be an advantage, but only if they had the same thermal mass as one larger one. This is not to say that two-boiler machines are inherently deficient. In this particular case, however, I would be somewhat skeptical because each of the boilers is about the size of a soft-drink can. A 2.3 L boiler is (again, in my opinion) a much more desirable situation.

[misalda]

Sorted, I thought about what Bruceb said and it makes perfect sense.

Some years ago, before the advent of digital photography, I used to develop colour photo's in my home darkroom. The biggest challenge to getting consistant results was keeping a small volume of chemicals at a constant temperature, any variation meaning an adjustment of time was required to compensate......very similar to espresso me thinks!

Hence I have bought a Cherub..with its large volume, high power element.

I will now need to practice with the HX flushing technique when it arrives hopefully Friday if Fracino are as good as their word

[bruceb]

Congratulations. I'm sure you won't regret it. Please share your experiences with us. Thanks

[espressomattic]

If its any consolation, working with HX machines for 12 years and I am still practising!

[Ed]

Somebody seems to have bought one before you:

http://www.toomuchcoffee.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=8282

Looks like a good decision.

[misalda]

Sorry about the lack of activity with this post.... I had every intention of sharing my weekend of learning with you but unfortunately the machine did not arrive on Friday as predicted and as of this evening it is still sitting with Fracino

There has been a delay with payment..I rang Fracino to place the order and was told to order it through the website which I did on the 4th, I used my credit card as I do with all internet purchases and I got a payment succesful message on screen and an email confirmation from Fracino.
I explained that I would have to arrange for someone to be in and would they confirm delivery dates times etc as it is difficult to get time off work at short notice, I rang them on the 5th the transaction had not cleared and they will not release the machine until the funds are in their bank, 6th rang them to say the funds were showing as allocated from my credit card account, still not in theirs! left it over the weekend,I rang today to say the transaction was now listed on my statement, not in their bank! so in despair I rang my credit card company who said the funds were released on the 4th and gave me a transaction ref and the authority code number which I have emailed to Fracino.

My biggest gripe in all this is not Fracino's insistence on having the funds before releasing the machine, apparently they have had their fingers burned before, but I have had to ring them every time, only once have they returned a call when the person I am dealing with was busy, not once have they contacted me with an update.

I've read lots of good reports about their after sales service but my experience of their sales service is dissappointing!

[misalda]

Well it finally arrived, much to the disgust of the Artic driver who had to drag the half pallet 400m down the narrow lane to my work

I have mixed feelings so far.. it's very British Leyland, the fit and finish is not quite there compared to the Honda I drive, the chrome top plate has an unfinished edge which could so easily have been rolled. The drip tray is not only needlessly small but such a tight fit it is impossible to remove without emptying the contents on the floor! The wire cup retainer is loose on one side..the water tank is a sweety jar AKA the corner shop complete with plastic cap. Perhaps I am just being picky but the full retail price of this machine is £820!!

It's main purpose is of course to make coffee which I have to say it does really well, I dialled the grinder in fairly quickly from the settings from my Gaggia Classic, put into practise the HX cooling flush I had read up on and after a couple of tries got some more than acceptable shots, I'm not sure what a God shot is so presumably I haven't got there yet but there is none of the sourness/bitterness of my Classic.

I then tried for Microfoam! Another ellusive beast with the Classic even with the Silvia steam wand, WOW... fast, very fast I have seen Microfoam now but unfortunately seem to coast past it each time, I think I need the 2 hole wand mentioned in other posts but I will keep trying if the dairy can keep up with the demand

So on the whole delighted with my purchase if I had wanted effortless then bean to cup would have been the answer.

[bruceb]

Congratulations! I'm sure the Cherub will serve you well. Unfortunately, many more expensive machines also have their down sides. I hope you get along well with it and enjoy much good coffee.