new basket filters...?

Equipment, technique, or just drinking the stuff

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Postby simonp » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:17 am

If you want a in-depth read that gives you an insight into the philiosophy behind these baskets read here:
http://baristamagazine.epubxpress.com/w ... pCABbCLcZ/
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Postby CakeBoy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:36 am

Will do, thanks Simon :)
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Postby simonp » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:43 pm

A quick update. I've been using the 20g basket for the last couple of days and pulling some excellent shots with a 50/50 mix of Brazilian Cachoeira and Nicaragua Limoncillo with a 20g dose. Bothe of these were roasted just to the point of 2nd crack (a little less for the Cach).
Today I tried a 20g dose of a lighter roasted (1st crack + 1 minute no signs of 2nd and beans still roughish) Guatemalan El Bosque. It seems the bean type and/or roast level mean a much higher density as the 20g filled the basket much less and meant a much bigger gap to the showerscreen. This gave me some channelling and not as good a shot, which I what I got when I used the 20g basket previously, which was with a light roast from Square Mile. This would all seem to confirm that you do need to get a dose that fills the basket reasonably well to get top results. I think you need to start with the nominal basket dose and then tune to taste and shot quality depending on the beans.
Profitec 700 dual boiler
Isomac Rituale
Mazzer Mini
Mahlkonig Vario
Chemex
Aeropress
2 Bodum press pots
Hottop updated to a B with Compuetr control
Imex roaster, dimmer mod on heater (under spare bed)
Rival popper, with split motor and dimmer mod on heater (retired)
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Postby bruceb » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:29 pm

After reading the article in Barista magazine and feeling rather irritated by the pictures of the "conventional" baskets I gathered up 12 of my baskets, none newer than about 3 years and some as old as 15 years and I looked at them under my Zeiss binocular microscope at 30 tp 100X. None of them had ragged looking holes like in the pictures except ones that had not been cleaned properly.
In spite of this I decided to order a few of the new VST designed LM baskets from Nuova Ricambi Deutschland (in English) yesterday afternoon. To my delight they arrived this morning about 11 AM, well packed and including a data sheet for each one. A quick look in the microscope showed the round holes one would expect and as shown on the data sheet. The baskets have a very nice, heavy and smooth feel to them and appear to be very well made.
A few test shots showed me that it is important to get 17g in the 17g basket, not 16g or 18g in order to have reproducible results. Using scales I was able to produce some very nice shots from a Costa Rica bean, ground in my "new" Mazzer Major. I don't yet see a large difference in the cup from my old, pre-VST LM basket, but it seemed easier to get a good shot with a lovely "mouse tail" using the new baskets. I will try them for a few weeks and report on my experience then. :D
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby simonp » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:36 pm

bruceb wrote:After reading the article in Barista magazine and feeling rather irritated by the pictures of the "conventional" baskets I gathered up 12 of my baskets, none newer than about 3 years and some as old as 15 years and I looked at them under my Zeiss binocular microscope at 30 tp 100X. None of them had ragged looking holes like in the pictures except ones that had not been cleaned properly.


I have a lot of baskets, the "old" LM ones have nice looking holes, but the "free" ones that came with things like naked portafilters and my Isomac ones look awfull. The VST baslets are extremely well made and sturdy though compared to all my other baskets.

I noticed more difference with the 20g basket in that you do not have to grind coarser for the bigger dose thus giving a similar flavour profile to the smaller baskets.
I actually dose 18g in the 17g which seems to give me the best and most consistent results.
Profitec 700 dual boiler
Isomac Rituale
Mazzer Mini
Mahlkonig Vario
Chemex
Aeropress
2 Bodum press pots
Hottop updated to a B with Compuetr control
Imex roaster, dimmer mod on heater (under spare bed)
Rival popper, with split motor and dimmer mod on heater (retired)
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Postby bruceb » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:33 am

I have been so pleased with the results that I have been getting I decided I had to find out what the cause of the difference is. One thing that I have noticed is that blonding is much less prevalent and happens much later than it used to. Since I had the new LM baskets and also the "new" Mazzer Major I thought it could be the one or the other or a combination. I finally did some testing and it seems evident that the grinder has made the difference. I just drank a single Brazilian Pereira Estate that was delicious and I made it using my 12 year-old single basket from CMA. I also compared an old no-name 20g triple basket with the new LM 20g using weighed 20g in each. If there was a difference I couldn't detect it.
I am definitely going to rebuild that second Major and put it up in the "library," if we ever get that room done. I have 2-group Francesconi "´(CMA) machine waiting to go in there and the big Major will go well with it. :D
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby simonp » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:45 pm

bruceb wrote: I also compared an old no-name 20g triple basket with the new LM 20g using weighed 20g in each. If there was a difference I couldn't detect it.


I think there are some good old baskets around and some not, I think the VST idea was to take out the variables. I have one of the ridgless "LM" style baskets that were all the rage a few years back but it always gives me early blonding in comparison to the VST whereas a no-brand tripple I have gives very good results. The differernce is the unbranded tripple needs a much coarser grind so does underextract a bit compared t the VST. I can swap from the 20g to 17g with hardly any grind adjustment which is very helpfull.

The big jump in my espresso has been getting the group hot and the machine running at the right boiler pressure. Cold brew water gives you VERY early blonding!
Profitec 700 dual boiler
Isomac Rituale
Mazzer Mini
Mahlkonig Vario
Chemex
Aeropress
2 Bodum press pots
Hottop updated to a B with Compuetr control
Imex roaster, dimmer mod on heater (under spare bed)
Rival popper, with split motor and dimmer mod on heater (retired)
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Postby bruceb » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:05 pm

Yes, I am also painfully aware of the temperature issue. If I get up too early (doesn't happen very often, but occasionally I cannot avoid it) and the machine has to warm up I sometimes pull a shot before the group is fully up to temperature and the shot blonds very quickly and tastes weak and watery.
Whether the VST basket technology is a solution looking for a problem remains to be seen, at least in my opinion. I am going to do a lot more testing. For now, however, I am really happy with the results I am getting with the Major (and, of course, the new burrs in it). I've torn apart the Rossi 45 and have ordered new burrs for it and will see how it does when I get it put back together. I am drinking way too much coffee just now. :shock: :shock:
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby icke » Tue May 07, 2013 7:44 pm

i still find them hard to use. i keep trying but keep also falling back to the espresso parts hq baskets, which seem much more forgiving.
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Postby bruceb » Tue May 07, 2013 9:02 pm

I've never gone back to using anything else since getting mine. I have pretty much settled on 18g in the 17g basket (as Simon suggested above) and I get reliable results. We have used a lot more coffee since I've gone to serving 18g "singles." I have to roast 3-4 times a month now (three batches of about 300g per batch per roasting session) whereas I used to only roast 2 times a month. Karin seems to like her cappuccinos much better made with twice as much coffee. All-in-all the new baskets and my "new" Mazzer Major have given my coffee a big boost.
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
I decided I needed a bit of a change so I roasted some Monsooned Malabar. That was a change!
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Postby michael7 » Tue May 07, 2013 9:41 pm

I use 18g and 20g VST's when training now as they are very consistent (providing the distribution is good!) they are fussy about that, but it just means you have to pay extra attention which my students should be doing anyway!

AFAIK, the baskets supplied by VST are marked as 18g and suggested dose is 17-19g, whereas the LM baskets are market 17g, but still optimum dose is 17-19g. So if you're using 16g as the lower limit then you'll likely get channelling. Similarly if you updose too much it'll channel.

If you prefer a lower dose then you can get the 14g LM or 15g VST, both optimum for 14-16g of coffee.

Like Bruce, I'm also seeing great results with a 20g VST and a brand new Major-E :)
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