Espresso Machines, Technology, Luddites & Ascetism

[GreenBean]

OK, OK, I will defend myself since no one else is going to. :

I am NOT opposed to "computerisation in general."

I am only against it in uses that are wholly unnecessary and serve no one but the computer industry. I love the computers in my computers. Without them the computers would not work and I could not express my wholly objective opinions to the world.

I don't need digital electronics in a microscope, an espresso machine or a motorbike. When Dom's fuel injection stops working in the middle of the Massif Central (or the middle of Birmingham) he'll wish it didn't need an update.

Luddites didn't want industrialisation (no mention of computerisation, btw) because it put men out of work. I certainly don't want to work, so my motivation is quite different.

Could this be just another manifestation of a phenomenon documented by a great philosopher?

1. Anything that is in the world when you're born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

2. Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

Douglas Adams - The Salmon of Doubt

Perhaps a fourth point is now warranted:

4. Anything that's invented after you're sixty is wholly unnecessary and serves no one but the industry involved.

bruceb - TMC Forum

[Gouezeri]

4. Anything that's invented after you're sixty is wholly unnecessary and serves no one but the industry involved.

Which means that Bruce probably thinks that the majority of the forum's members are wholly unnecessary

I was surprised when I learnt that this bike had fuel injection, as it does kind of go against the ethos, but from what I have read, it is all down to emissions controls these days. I believe that it does improve the performance quite a bit though. And if it ever breaks down, like my last carb'ed bike did in 40 degree temps somewhere outside of Aix en Provence 14 years back, well, I'll just have to use my mobile phone to call for assistance... where as back then it was a rather long walk to find a phone booth. I did end up fixing the problem myself at a local garage though.

In the case of the GS/3, I don't see this as technology just for the sake of it and I don't think it actually gets in the way of the barista, but rather offers more parameters to play with, which is a good thing in my book. Whereas I was doing some reading on the Marzocco swift the other day and for me that has to be the equivalent of a bean-to-cup machine in the grinder world. Ie a form of automation which actually results in less control.

[bruceb]

Perhaps a fourth point is now warranted:

4. Anything that's invented after you're sixty is wholly unnecessary and serves no one but the industry involved.

bruceb - TMC Forum

[CakeBoy]

I ordered a Luddite once, they served me a Macchiato instead

[bruceb]

I ordered a Luddite once, they served me a Macchiato instead

They're not that different, just the one is more bitter than the other.

[bruceb]

I ordered a Luddite once, they served me a Macchiato instead

They're not that different, the one is just more bitter than the other.

[GreenBean]

Perhaps a fourth point is now warranted:

4. Anything that's invented after you're sixty is wholly unnecessary and serves no one but the industry involved.

bruceb - TMC Forum

4. Anything that's invented after you're sixty is wholly unnecessary and serves no one but the industry involved.

Which means that Bruce probably thinks that the majority of the forum's members are wholly unnecessary

I don't know about the majority of members but, judging by that axe he is sharpening, I think he is intent on reducing the membership by one.

I ordered a Luddite once, they served me a Macchiato instead

They're not that different, the one is just more bitter than the other.

I'm just glad to see that you have put that axe down.

[Aadje]

The axe and sharpening stone were already invented when Bruce was born, so he has every right to use them . . .

[bruceb]

The axe and sharpening stone were already invented when Bruce was born, so he has every right to use them . . .

...and he does

[geedee]

I am with Bruce on this one, but then I would be given my age and the fact that most things weren't invented when I was borne ... I have an innate suspicion of things that don't eat at one end and defecate at the other but I use things like mobile phones, e-book readers etc. because they are useful. I also put off buying newer technology until it becomes older technology.

I guess that makes me a latter day, pragmatic procrastinating Luddite

[lukas]

OK, OK, I will defend myself since no one else is going to. :

I am NOT opposed to "computerisation in general."

I am only against it in uses that are wholly unnecessary and serve no one but the computer industry. I love the computers in my computers. Without them the computers would not work and I could not express my wholly objective opinions to the world.

Could this be just another manifestation of a phenomenon documented by a great philosopher?

1. Anything that is in the world when you're born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

2. Anything that's invented between when you're fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

Sorry to disappoint Greeny. I'm not yet in the range your number two mentions and even though I study that stuff, my opinion quite exactly matches Bruce's here. He just Is Right (tm) and experienced enough to know that

[GreenBean]

I am surprised that some people have read my posts to suggest that I have disagreed with Bruce or have expressed any opinion in this thread on the application of new technology.

If you read the thread again I think you will see that all I have done is question the assertion by Bruce that he is not a Luddite. The observations on the affect of age on the acceptance of new technology are not mine but those of Douglas Adams and again I have only questioned if they may be pertinent.

For the avoidance of further doubt I would like to put on record that my views are similar to those expressed by Bruce. Where I differ is that, like geedee, I consider these views classify me as a Luddite and, like Gouezeri, I consider the application of microprocessor/PID control to dual boiler espresso machines as an entirely appropriate and beneficial use of technology.

I would like to issue a humble apology to EricC for the way we have hijacked this thread. The GS3 is an excellent machine that uses new technology to great effect. I would ask our moderators to consider splitting this thread into the original posts by EricC regarding the sale of this great machine and the rest which perhaps should be moved to the "Off Topic" section under a suitable heading. Perhaps "The application of new technology" or "The Execution of GreenBean".

[Gouezeri]

Thread split to give EricC a better chance of actually selling his machine! And so we can all carry on picking on Bruce!

[bruceb]

[GreenBean]

Thread split to give EricC a better chance of actually selling his machine! And so we can all carry on picking on Bruce!

Thanks Dom although I do not think that picking on Bruce will be a popular sport. He has spent a great deal of time helping many of us, passing on his wisdom and knowledge. Most of us, including myself, owe him a great debt of gratitude for all the help and advice we have received. We are also brought up to respect our elders and betters, poking fun at them would be so unseemly and kicking a man when he is down is just unacceptable….. Oh, I can not keep this up….. who am I kidding? None of this has ever stopped me in the past so……



Seriously though, I do think that Douglas Adams was on to something with his observations on the affect of age on the acceptance of new technology. Unfortunately, as we age, it becomes more difficult to comprehend lists of items or long convoluted sentences as, by the time we reach the end, we have forgotten the beginning or why we were reading it in the first place. To help I have included below a pictorial representation of Douglas Adams observations of the affect of age on acceptance of technology:

Youth:



Middle age:



Old age: