Sugar?

Equipment, technique, or just drinking the stuff

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Sugar or no sugar?

Are you crazy? No sugar!
6
43%
One spoon is ok.
7
50%
I need at least two spoons.
1
7%
I heap it up big time: to get "syrupy" espresso, just add lots and lots of the sweet stuff!
0
No votes
Just some salt to reduce the "ki" in my kidneys, please, I'm a macrobiotician!
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 14

Sugar?

Postby Raf » Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:32 am

Time for a healthy discussion: does sugar ruin a perfectly good espresso, or does it only get better from a little sugar? And how much?

I'm asking because I just changed my habits: I'm down from two to one tiny spoon of sugar, the round, very mini Illy spoons if you know them:

http://www.zoxx.com/Merchant2/merchant. ... de=ILLGIRO

I'm not sure yet if I'll take it down to no sugar at all.
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

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Postby HughF » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:26 am

Since I was asked for a comment in another poll.......

If I don't like a double espresso without sugar, I change the blend or the roasting (if the pour time is right), but I'm still learning a lot. For French press I like a fruity brew e.g. Kenyan.

Cheers,

Hugh
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Postby DrZeus » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:38 am

Well, this is a difficult one to answer. If I have a milk-based drink, I never add sugar because the steamed milk is sweet enough. I believe a well-prepared straight shot of espresso shouldn't need any sugar. However, since my arrival in Portugal, I've been forced to add a full packet of sugar to every shot because the coffee is so aweful.
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Postby Raf » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:48 am

It's really only a symbolic amount of suger you can get in those spoons (I think it's not even a gram, vs. a normal cube = 6 grams and the sugar bags = 6 grams as well) but I do think I'll try to get down to no sugar at all. The sugar habit comes - like DrZeus' - from drinking awful espresso/allongé/cat piss in Belgian cafés, and it seems hard to kick.
This week I am eagerly anticipating the first god shots from my La Spaziale machine....

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Postby michel » Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:35 pm

In my view Espresso without sugar is flat. It seems the sugar compliments the coffee and helps the coffee expose more flavours/aroma's to my palate...
In earlier day's I was feeling guilty about not being a purist, thus drinking straight shots of espresso. After reading a couple of history books about coffee though, I noticed that sugar was added to coffee already a long, long time ago. (the old Abessinia's (Ethiopians) did it, as well as the inhabitants of the 'Islam'-domintated countries...
This made my feeling 'not being a purist' go away.

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Postby Sunnyfield » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:57 pm

It may sound silly, but sugar in my coffee makes me feel nauseous. Must be some childhood trauma I think. On top of that I am a purist, so no sugar for me.
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Postby cleverdic » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:19 pm

I thought I would resurrect this thread since I am going through a dilemma at the moment although I think my wife might call it more of a mid life crisis.

I drink mostly milk based espresso drinks always without sugar. Recently, I have started to drink straight espressos. Although I can detect the difference between my perception of good or bad coffee, I want to explore the more subtle taste differences achieved by different bean blends. Hopefully, with the help of this group, I can move forward in this quest. Being a purist sort of guy I have started to drink straight double espressos without sugar when I caught sight of the poll on this thread which now sits neck and neck with people who take a small amount of sugar and people who take none.

So in the last couple of days, I have slipped in less than half a teaspoon of sugar in my double and I have to say my overall pleasure has increased helping to balance out the bitterness. Have I committed a cardinal sin? After reading the messages on this thread, I now don't think so especially as I have also read that most Italians take sugar in their daily espressos. So is it :D or :( for sugar?

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Postby phil » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:36 pm

If you've got bitterness in your espresso:
  • Backflush your machine. Right now! Reach for that Puly Caf or Urnex. If I start to detect bitterness in my shots I know that my group heads are dirty
  • Check you're not over-extracting. Milk can hide a multitude of sins IMO. If I reckon I've over-extracted a shot I either chuck it or stick it in a cappa for Allyson (but don't tell her)
  • Don't use too dark a roast. What works best in cappas is not always that good in a straight shot.

A good espresso should be naturally (a little) sweet. I pulled a shot at Neku's the other week (on his VBM) and I think we were all startled as to how sweet Mme De Boe's blend could be if you over-filled and pulled it a certain way.

Lots to discuss here Richard. I feel a separate thread, maybe an addition to the FAQ, coming on. Want to help flesh this out?

Phil
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Postby cleverdic » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:27 pm

Phil,
Yes happy to help. On one of your points, I have calclulated that I have enough back cleaning powder to gift to two new generations of our family! I must remember to use it.

As part of this exercise I would like to list my current store of 10 or so green beans and invite the group to suggest blends for

a. straight espressos

b. capps and lattes

c. vac pots (my latest purchase)

We can kick off a couple of threads

One on the back of my listing; maybe even get an argument or 2 started to liven it up
and a second one on the skill of good espresso brewing.

Richard
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Postby Steve » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:42 pm

SUGAR ERRRRRRRRR! I'll have mine staright mt Barista
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Postby phil » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:44 pm

Absolutely excellent! Please so exactly as you say!

(mumble, mumble ... yet another person "guilting" me about leaving my Cona in the cupboard ... mumble, mumble....)
La Spaziale Spazio 2 group semi-auto

La Spaziale Lusso grinder (espresso),
Macap MC4 shop grinder (brewed coffee)
Three Thor tampers
Two Hottops, first since Feb 2003
No partridge, no pear tree either
Conas, Zassenhaus hand grinder....
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Postby Danny » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:32 pm

I always try it first without sugar, but tend to add a small bit....
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Postby mnemonix » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:09 am

Me too. I wrote a frivolous mini article likening straight espresso to staring at the sun, too intense and too small to make anything out, while a mug of filter or cafetiere with milk and sugar was like putting on a pair of sunglasses and standing closer so you could actually see the detail. It was too silly to submit and I'm sure others would say the milk and sugar are simply akin to looking at it through a very dirty window. :wink:

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Postby phil » Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:36 pm

Hey Chris that's just the sort of thing I'd love to publish, something that sparks discussion. DOn't you agree Neku?
La Spaziale Spazio 2 group semi-auto

La Spaziale Lusso grinder (espresso),
Macap MC4 shop grinder (brewed coffee)
Three Thor tampers
Two Hottops, first since Feb 2003
No partridge, no pear tree either
Conas, Zassenhaus hand grinder....
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Postby moccafaux » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:27 pm

Lots of factors influence this.
It depends on my mood and the kind of espresso I drink.
With Hughs blend I had to add a good heap of sugar, phils samples I mixed into a blend based on the brazil and I needed almost no sugar.
When I am a bit down I need lots of sugar.
Over the last month I developed both my palates and espresso-pulling qualities. Less milk and less sugar in general is the outcome.
My favourite is currently the double ristretto with a tiny bit of sugar, drunk as a marrochino (= with ca 50ml of milk-foam on top).
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