Plumbing questions ...

[pault]

Phil you're right

I had a thread on CoffeeGeek were it was pointed out that although the Spazio 2 group has the patented head boiler system it isn't a 2 boiler machine which the S1 is.

the decision I'm back to is I can get the Spazio 2 group for a similar price as the S1

the former has size, durability - the latter has the advantage of temp control

Volvo or sports car??

[pault]

I'm getting a new reservoir with stainless steel probes delivered for the Giotto (see my other posting regarding metal flakes off the gold-plated probes)

and then if the big purchase is made I'll either use it as back-up, stick it in my office, or see if any members want it for a knock-down, going to a good home deal ....

I'm still annoyed at having to get new esclamativo tampers etc.

Grrrr!!!

[Steve]

<------------ Raises his hand if the Giotto looks for a new home

[matts]

the decision I'm back to is I can get the Spazio 2 group for a similar price as the S1

the former has size, durability - the latter has the advantage of temp control

Volvo or sports car??

In general: sports car if you can

Double boiler shurely?

Why on earth two groups in the house? sorry Phil! (did I miss something, maybe you throw big parties)

Matt
'extreme envy - drilling holes in the worktop - I'd be out on the street'

[pault]

I rehearsed all the pro's and con's in my mind before when I was previously faffing about all this and I spoke with a certain professional person who has both the S1 at home and a 2-group at work and he seemed to confirm one of my prejudices about the home machines- even the top of the range ones - despite the great temp control, dual boilers etc. - they feel a bit "tinny" to use, e.g. the smaller scale of the S1, the plastic down the sides etc. He much prefers interacting with the bigger models (Phil also speaks highly of the 2-Groups) and I think I would too ... E.g. while I'm waiting for a replacement reservoir for the Giotto I've been using my Pavoni and it feels really insubstantial compared to the Giotto which good as it is like all machines of its type is still basically a chrome box around an E61 head.

I'm sure it is overkill for my small kitchen and there's something Freudian involved (quite ironic considering I dont' drive [maybe compensating?]) - but the idea of a big, commercial beast just appeals ...

the other thing is that from what's being offered to me, I can get the beast for pretty much the same as the S1 (or a Techno which I was also tempted by - but just preferred the better service support of the S1), again maybe fooling myself but it just strikes me as more machine for the money ...

someone tell me I'm an idiot and speak up for the S1, I was planning on making the decision tomorrow??!!....

[robbie]

it's up to you Paul but I am quite happy with the small techno. Just makes great coffee. I also like faffing about and the method of support, ie the full service manual appeal, didn't detract. However, if you need a plumber then the S1 or 2-group supported La Spaziale is definitely the way to go.
Must write that review sometime ... sorry Phil, I guess "The Techno makes really good coffe" needs expanding a bit.
Robbie

[robbie]

another e for a start

[pault]

robbie - how did your plumbing experience with the Techno go?

also to other people - do you still need a filter in a soft-water region and if you still do, does the filter last longer or just the same period of time as in a hard water region??

[kingseven]

I remember being talked through the guts of a Spaziale by Stephen Penk. It was a very interesting machine. The engineers used to work for Faema before setting up Spaziale. I've no doube they are damned fine machines. So - go on then, I will have one of those or a Marzocca. Don't mind....

[Ian]

Going back to the original questions:

having read the previous postings about plumbing, am I right in thinking the following ...

a plumber should charge me approx £100 including drilling the work tops?

a half-decent plumber won't have any problems doing the job?

The plumber will have to tee into the rising main (usually found under the kitchen sink), install a service valve and check valve and simply route the new pipe to the machine. If you have a timber based worktop, he will be able to drill through it in a matter of seconds. If you have something more exotic e.g. granite or cast concrete then you may prefer to chop a channel in the back wall. 100 would probably be reasonable including materials but I think would be a bit high for labour only - depends on your layout.

is the "in line" filter already fitted in the machine - or does that need to be done by the plumber too, or is one not really necessary?

See Jim Schulman's water FAQ. Although tap water is supposed to be safe to drink, I have fitted a ceramic filter (from avonsoft.com) to my drinking water tap which I change annually and it's surprising how much it traps.

(forgive the basic nature of the questions - but I have been ripped off by a builder and want to avoid the same happening again)

Never admit total ignorance - make like a geezer. Ask if the price you've been quoted is a firm price or an estimate. Don't pay until the job is completed to your satisfaction although paying a small amount for materials at the start would not be unreasonable.

If you need any more help, PM me and I'll give you my phone no.


Ian

[robbie]

Paul
Well, if you have plumbed in a dishwasher it's no harder. Just got a washing machine tap - the easy clamp on type so no pipe cutting - and fastened that to the cold feed. The water filter connection fitted it no problem. I drilled 3 holes in the wall to mount the filter (Big Brita thing) which was supplied with the Techno. I marked and drilled 2x 4cm holes (sounds big and looks it but it avoids kinks in the pipes) in the counter top for the power, cold feed and drain. The drain was taken to my old dishwasher drain and in all it took about 45 minutes. However, if you are not adept with the old black and decker I would suggest the plumber route.
We are a soft water area too and IMHO filtered water is better. I have always used it for coffee and tea (well the last 15 years or so).
Robbie

[pault]

Thanks to everyone for all the tips ...

after the initial hassle of the plumbing I'm sure it must be great to not have to keep bothering with a water reservoir, I'm looking forward to it ...

on another tack - I'd love to see the techno and the S1 performing side by side, strikes me there's little to separate them, similar functionality etc. S1 about £100 more based on the prices I was quoted ... suppose it's all about the intangibles - aesthetics etc. good to see Rob's enjoying his Techno...

all the best,

Paul.

[phil]

Ian - the hundred quid isn't just for the water supply, it's for the drain as well.

Exactly like a washing machine. Same parts, same requirements.