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[vinter]

Guys, many thanks for all the replies - you are a regular goldmine of experience and sound advice! I guess I will hang on for a while to the Dualit and upgrade it eventually.
Steven, I have emailed them about the Vibiemme - sounds exiting!
Now, this raises a new issue as I understand the Super has plummed watersupply...which I am not sure is possible in my current kitchen/apartment?...but maybe I should start a new thread for that - this one is getting Looong

[Raf]

ESW now sells the Macap grinder too, I heard. They're supposed to be as good as a Mazzer, but slightly cheaper.

[mnemonix]

anyone considering HX and E61 groupheads likely already knows the importance of the grinder and has a Mazzer Mini or similar.
Chris.

I see what you mean, but disagree a little bit there. I know this is an elitist hobby to many of those not lost to the taste of good coffee. But it need not be so.

<snip>

Hope I made my point clear... rubbing it in.
/Mats

Ooooh. I can't let that go. I'd no more recommend an E61 grouphead than I would a Mazzer. I did say "a Mazzer or similar" indicating a general level of quality though, BUT the thrust of my point was about relativity - a Dualit and an expensive espresso machine are simply not well matched. IF you are going to spend the amount of money required for the kind of machines being discussed here (E61 and the like) and you are doing it for the coffee and not just because you like the look of all that chrome, I'd say again, that a grinder of 'Mazzer quality' IS sensible. Sure, something cheaper will do, but then a cheaper espresso machine will do too so that's no argument. I can't stress enough how important the grinder is to the process of creating espresso and it is said time and time again that a cheap espresso machine and good grinder will make a good espresso where an expensive espresso machine and cheap grinder will make nothing bearing any resemblance to espresso at all.

It's certainly not snobbery. I've been looking at HX machines recently, but my setup consists of a basic Gaggia machine with a secondhand Mazzer from ebay.

Perhaps I'm clearer now ?

Chris.

[zix]

BUT the thrust of my point was about relativity - a Dualit and an expensive espresso machine are simply not well matched.

I can't stress enough how important the grinder is to the process of creating espresso and it is said time and time again that a cheap espresso machine and good grinder will make a good espresso where an expensive espresso machine and cheap grinder will make nothing bearing any resemblance to espresso at all.

I agree almost totally. Bad grinder-->bad espresso. I have learnt that lesson myself when I had too worn burrs on my own grinder. That really messed things up for me badly. My longwinded reply could probably be summed up as "a cheap grinder is not necessarily a bad grinder". The Dualit could (and should) be modified to work better until a better built grinder can be afforded, perhaps a really godd grinder bought "second hand".
I sometimes fail to be clear enough because I use too many words, or I dont use them well enough. Perhaps "cheap grinder XOR bad grinder"? If I got that boolean right... otherwise I have messed it up even more

Perhaps I'm clearer now ?

Chris.

Clear as window glass (newly polished)
Good luck with the machine and the grinder, whatever happens, Mads!