HELP! Short extraction time

[simonp]

Simon, if you want some special roasts / varieties / single origins for testing on your Silvya, I can send you some

Sounds good.

I hope to get the Silvia early next week, so I can test how my grinder and technique really works. soon!

I rang up Morphy Richards today, as something has come loose in the portafilter handle of the Roma (somthing rolls around, seems like they put some sort of weight in to make it feel more solid!!!), and the brew/steam knob is getting hard to turn when it is warm. They are exchanging the machine for a new one on Thursday! Oh well, all the better for selling on Ebay after Silvia arrives!

I've concluded that the Roma is only built for occasional use, they give a 2 year warrante, but on daily use you'd be sending it back all the time.

Simon

[Joey]

Michel: thanks (>blushing<) that's nice

...as I am a person who usually talks with her hands (without them I'm dumb my mother once said - I always have the fear that just written words don't express the real emotions enough.
But thanks to "emoticons", which I use a lot, it's easier to "talk" in a forum.

Now that I reread THAT again it sounds as if I'm deaf and can only talk with hand gestures - crap - nope, I'm just one of these women who gestures like a mime when chatting to a friend...waiters with full trays have to dodge my table

...and now I'm drifting off the topic - sorry folks, I guess I studied too hard tonight. It's 2am now and I'm too awake to go to sleep. (I drank too much coffee to stay awake at the beginning, Honolulu blend, by the way, ground not too fine....he, he)

Well, I gotta leave this place in space...good night! (deffinitely too much caffeine)

Joey

[simonp]

I've just had another thought on the extraction time, in relation to volume.
I have been using 2 floz including the crema which is, I believe, correct. However due to the "crema enhancing" filter basket, I get a very thick head of foam initially, up to 15mm. Should I actually be letting the shot run longer, as with a normal filter basket there would be a smaller head of crema, and hence the height in the cup/glass would be lower?

I rarley see the flow turning pale during a shot, so perhaps this is the case.

SimonP

[phil]

Personally I judge a shot by both the colour of the stream and the time, but more the former than the latter. If your stream isn't turning pale and you're well under 30 seconds then your shot doesn't need to be terminated.

IMO you terminate the shot when the colour & time tell you it is finished, then adjust your grind etc according to the taste and volume results.

[Joey]

I totally agree!
Joey

[simonp]

OK, I now have my Silvia, and having unpacked it warmed it up for 1/2 hour, and run some water through it, I tried a shot. Set the Isomac grinder to about 3 (0 being the finest) filled the basket with approx 16g, tamped to 30 pounds, fitted the portafiletr in, removed it again to see just the impression of the showerscreen screw, put the portafilter back in and pulled a shot.
After about 4 seconds a dark trail started followed by the honey colour, but the shot took less than 15 seconds.
OK I thought, lets start at the finest setting and work back. Result about a 15 second shot, quite a bit of crema but way too short.
I tried about 4 more shots, tamping harder each time up to as hard as I could manage, including a NESW tamp before the final hard tamp and polish. The result, yup, a 15 second shot!!
OK I realise that it will take a while to get up to speed with the Silvia, but I should be able to get better than this surely?!
There are no grounds getting in the cup, even at the finest setting of the grinder, which makes me susspect that this is the problem.
Oh, by the way the beans I am using are Hasbean Premium Espresso Blend, opened the packet yesterday, so should be OK.

Once again HELP!!

Cheers,

SimonP

[michel]

How does the shots taste Simon? I for example sometimes have shots of 15 sec. which are great! So don't focus to much on the time...
Furthermore, what does the 'mous-tail' look like? Is it whirling/twisting? If so, that's the problem... water found a weak spot in your puck and is overextracting some pieces of it, while other pieces of the puck are even left alone...
If not, try somthing else: grind coarser, tamp lighter... Some - especially - fresh roasted coffees need a different approach to make the time of the shot longer (and better!)

Good luck,
Michel

[Raf]

I think we need to send the TMC rescue team to this one. Simon, what you report sounds a lot like what I was getting with my VBM / ROcky combo in the beginning (these were the sorry days before TMC, so evidence will have to be sought in the alt.coffee archives).

From reading your posts, I would rule out: filter baskets, Silvia and beans. I went through a lot of misery myself in the beginning, but believe me: a tamp doesn't make a world of difference in shot time, and neither does a filter basket. You could try to add a few grams of coffee - I normally use about 19 grams for a double shot, but even a difference of three grams doesn't necessarily influence your shot time a great deal (at least on my E 61 machine it doesn't, but I've never worked with a Silvia).

As a rule, shot time is determined by how fine your grind is. And with a good grinder, it should be possible to choke your machine.

Now I don't know your Isomac grinder, but the first thing you need to check is: does grinding at the zero setting make things better.

If that doesn't help (which seems to be the case), you should check if the "0" on your grinder is really the point where the blades touch. Carefully of course! But a lot of grinders have a factory "zero" setting that is not related at all to the point where the burrs touch. If so, you can grind even finer than zero.

So: try to grind at the '0' setting, and if that doesn't work, try to grind at '- 1' or '- 2' or even further down the scale (WARNING: only if you don't hear touching grinder blades of course). Good luck.

[simonp]

Ah, looks like I was on the right track then, prior to seeing your reply I decided to have a close look at the grinder, particularly the setting mechanism.
On the Isomac you cannot go below '0', there is a physical stop there.
Upon inspection I discover that there is a grub screw in the plastic carrier for the outer piece of the burr (which is threaded to give the adjustment, and has the indents fot the settings).
This grub screw pokes out of the bottom of the plastic, and catches on one of the mounting screws to stop the burrs getting any closer.
There are lots of holes round the carrier to fit this screw to, so I removed it and turned the carrier to see how much further I could turn it before the burrs touched. This turned out to be about another 90 degrees, which would be about 6 of the setting indents.
I replcaed the grub screw so that it just stops the burrs from touching. I then ground a small ammount of beans to try, and the grind is much finer, more like the flour people have talked about.
I haven't had time to try this with the Silvia as I had to go out, but will try tomorrow and report back.

I did have a quick play ith milk foaming, boy is this thing powerfull, the steam pressure must be 5 times that of the Roma!
I need to re-learn my technique, got major sea foam!!

Cheers,

Simon

[Raf]

Ha! Stupid of me not to think about this: Rockies also have one of those blocking screws. Apparently, the grinder factories are afraid you'll ruin the blades by grinding too fine. Well, I can assure you that your shot time will improve when you grind finer.

[phil]

Simon, you might want to mention this to Carolyn (thinking about your warranty). I haven't seen her around here for ages so I guess she's very busy, but I'm sure that this sort of feedback would be valuable and as I said, you want to be careful about that warranty.

Phil