Too Much Coffee

simonp wrote:I have seen lots of people claiming 1.1 bar or even 0.9 bar for good espresso with an HX machine, they must habe terrible steam!

That's what mine runs at so it can't be the whole story, where does boiler size come into it?

Ultimately thogh, the boiler pressure determines the power (not the volume) of the steam and 1 bar is only 1 atmosphere above atmospheric, which you would think would give weak steam.

Okay, well I've been having a play. I haven't really steamed that much with the Rituale (don't drink many milky things, but do enjoy them from time to time) - in fact I've probably only steamed 3-4 times as many times with it as Simon did in the week or so he had it. Anyway, I bought 4 pints of semi-skimmed and my view is it is just a technique thing. Stretching really is stretching - you need to feel like you're using the wand to pull the milk up with the tip near the surface - then bury (but not too deep) to mix it. Certainly I'm not the best steamer (or pourer) but I was able to produce some reasonable results consistently, even though I think I have a tendancy to over-stretch. Just to prove it, I'll attach a photo, but please no marks out of ten as I haven't had a lot of practice.

I did find a couple of Reviews on CG which were both positive about the steaming, the more relevant one said something like "steaming works like a champ" - relevant (but also puzzling) because the reviewer had previously had a Silvia.

On the whole, though, I would say the Rituale isn't the fastest steamer (and Simon's Silvia certainly seemed to have more power in that department) but I would say it's capable.

I also read this reviewof the S1 which uses an Amica and a Rituale for comparison, which is quite interesting. The conclusion is quite interesting too.

The pics - okay, apolgies for

1. Quality of images (couldn't find my digicam so had to use my phone
2. Crude way they're pasted together....
3. Quality of the art, but in my defence, the cups are small and deep so a little tricky.

So, my technique sucks huh?

Seriously though, I guess I'm so used to the extra power I found it hard to alter the technique. I was surprised how hard it was to get right though, after finding it so easy the the Silvia from the start. Maybe it is just a tip thing. Looking at a review of 3 HX amchines here: http://www.home-barista.com/andreja-buy ... mance.html
The Rituale takes twice as long to steam as the other 2 HX machines, so this can only mean the tip making the difference, as other than that the steam power must be very similar at the same boiler pressure.

simonp wrote:So, my technique sucks huh?

Just stick to blending

Yeah, yeah, but who says I'm any good at that either
Still, once I finish work I'll have plenty of time to hone my technique

I did think of one thing. I tend to go over half way with milk in the pitcher. I ended up doing this or the Silvia would blow the milk out of the pitcher. I notice that a lot of the frothing tips say fill no more than half, so perhaps my depth of milk stops the swirl with lowered power steam.

Simon, I know that one of my friends here had a lot of problems with steaming but is now making perfect microfoam, if it were easy then it would not be a challenge and we would all be using fully automatics and steamer attachments. As with everything else, once you get it right you wonder what all the fuss was about.

Hi Motoman,

Ah, the thing is I CAN create great microfoam with teh Silvia, I just couldn't get very close with the HX machine. The technique is very very different it seems.

simon wrote

and 1 bar is only 1 atmosphere above atmospheric

I thought 1 bar = 1atmosphere = atmospheric pressure, or as near as dammit.
I'll be crushed if I'm wrong.
Q.C.

I thought 1 bar = 1atmosphere = atmospheric pressure, or as near as dammit.
I'll be crushed if I'm wrong.

Correct, but pressure gauges are set to show pressure ABOVE atmospheric, i.e. they show zero at atmospheric pressure, so when the gauge shows 1 bar, the real pressure referenced to zero is 2 bar. I hope I haven't made this sound more confusing than it is.

Thanks - that makes more sense out of the readings I was getting on the Zaff.
Q.C.

I read the thread with interest.

1. The Zaffiro is a strong steamer. It has 2 thermostats, one for brew temp (adjustable), and one for steam (preset to 125c, non adjustable). The Zaffiro needs to have a quick bleed of the wand before steaming, but other than that has NO problems. I usually give it 60 secs to come up to temp, then with light still on, steam away. Pressure does go high, reason is overshoot on thermometer. HX machine cust off on pressure, Zaff cuts off on Temp.

2. HX machines running at 1.1 all the way to 1.5 bar will have almost identical steaming performance (the temp difference is only about 6 c. Ranging from 122-128 (working from memory). This means as soon as steam valve is opened, pressure in boiler drops and water flashes off to steam (as above 100 c you get steam at atmospheric pressure). If water level too high, it might adversly affect steam production.

I know of 4 main problems foaming milk.

1. People sometimes don't open the steam valve enough
2. The tip is too high in the milk
3. The jug isnt angled when foaming and tip to one side to get swirl
4. Jug wrong size, depth and/or width for quantity of milk (I have 2 jugs, for different milk quanitities)

And to be honest, you don't want too strong steam performance, as it doesnt always give you time to stretch smaller quanities of milk.

From the figures I had, 1.2bar equates to 104C and your Zaffiro temp is about the same as the Silvia, and the figures I have give a pressure at 125c is over 2 bar, so this is very different from the HX machines.

Here is the link I used http://www.connel.com/freeware/steam.shtml for the calculations.

simonp wrote:From the figures I had, 1.2bar equates to 104C and your Zaffiro temp is about the same as the Silvia, and the figures I have give a pressure at 125c is over 2 bar, so this is very different from the HX machines.

Don't really understand what your saying, I looked at the site and the pressure I gave of 1.1 bar being about 122 c is right on the money?

They quote absolute pressure, so you subtract 1 bar (atmospheric pressure) to get "gauge pressure" which is what you see on a pressure gauge. Enter 122 c and subtract 1 bar from the absolute pressure and you get 1.114 bar

Hope that helps clear things up.