FAQ: How to choose an espresso machine?

by **Raf** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:00 pm

1. I have 50 -100 euros to spend.

2. I have 100 - 300 euros to spend

3. I have 300- 1000 euros to spend

4. I am friggin' Cresoes/I have a platinum VISA card/My name is Bill Gate$

(I'm finding cover: you guys let yourselves go!)

by **michel** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:07 pm

1, second hand semi-commercial machine, or used R.Silvia
2, second hand semi-commercial machine, or used R.Silvia
3, second hand or new semi-commercial, or second hand commercial machine
4, La Marzocca, preferably hot-rodded by Kees vd Westen (www.keesvanderwesten.com)

(semi-commercial machine's like the: Bazzar, Isomac, ECM, Vibiemme)

by **Raf** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:11 pm

I think you imply that my price "points" (as they're called on a.c and cg) are ineptly chosen? Maybe we need an extra category between 300 and 1000. Like:

3. I have 300 - 500 to spend

4. I have 500 - 800 to spend

5. I have 800 - 1000 to spend
?

by **michel** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:21 pm

Yes, looks much better... But the buyer has to buy a grinder too (or we should at least mention that without grinding yourselve... a machine over 100 euro's is too expensive allready...).
So when I look at category 4, Silvia and Rocky are a good combo, and category 5 a Vibiemme and a Mazzer...

by **Raf** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:35 pm

You're right about the grinders, we should explain this first. Maybe we should have a FAQ for "How to choose an espresso machine" and say: sorry: you can't just buy an espresso machine, and redirect them to a FAQ "How to choose an espresso combo?" (but then: what about the people who just want to upgrade? I'm guessing they already know everything already and don't really need a "FAQ")

category 5 a Vibiemme and a Mazzer...

don't make me drool please, I need to concentrate!

by **phil** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:26 pm

I'm not qualified to comment as my Gaggia (commercial, TD 2 group) is still with the repair man :cry:

by **michel** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:42 pm

I'm beginning to really feel sorry for you Phil. But damn... that's a fine machine you have there (if in working condition though...).
BTW: 'How old is the repair man..? I have a weakeness for really old man doing their jobs... but when I have to have something fixed myselve I alway's search for a enthusiatic young fellow... who fix it (as quick as possible...) because he still has to prove himselve... in the contrary of the really-crumpy old fellows, who have done this a thousand times and let it rest on their 'work-bench' till the time is ripe... also...
And another BTW: What's wrong with your machine..?

Michel

by **michel** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:03 pm

BTW: I'm verry envious of your Hottop Phil... (just read the sweetmaria comments :shock:

and you know what: My next 'upgrade' will be a hottop... - but my only concern is the smoke/smell as I intend to roast indoors without a fan, but near an opened window at 40cm distance though-).

Any insights on this?

Thanks,
Michel

by **phil** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:28 am

Re the Hottop - I wouldn't worry about the smoke - if you have ventilation that's good enough IMO. Unless you're really into dark roasts I suppose. I just use mine in the kitchen and open a window to blow out whatever smoke I get - but it's not a lot really. Certainly nothing compared to what I get if I take the smoke filter out. That smoke filter does an excellent job.

Re the Gaggia, the boiler sprang a leak and blew water all over the electrical circuits. Thankfully the circuits survived the experience and the repair actually didn't take all that long once the man started on it (about an hour).

However (and here I must apologise to those who've heard me tell this story several times already

) the TD is an unusual machine in that it not only is a heat-exchanger (HX) machine, it has supplemental electrical heating at the group head, controlled by a thermostat buried in the head. Someone once described the Porsche 911 to me as a triumph of engineering over design. I think this falls into the same category.

Anyway, the very earliest TDs (from 1995) had electrical heating in only one of the two groups (the one furthest from the boiler). For machines which get only light use, or for that matter where the barista is in the least concerned about temperature stability, this is not good enough. As an example we tested the water coming out of the groups. The RH group produced water near 90 dec C but LH group produced water at only around 73 deg c. The engineer who sold me the machine was going to install a later model group head for the LH group, but something bad happened to him and I never saw him again. It took me a long time to find a commercial engineer willing to actually fix the machine for me, but he's not a Gaggia specialist so he's having problems getting a replacement group head. The machine has stayed with him for several months now, firstly because he didn't fix it for quite a long time because he was busy doing other stuff, and then because he couldn't get the spare part. Last I heard (two weeks ago) he still hadn't managed to get it. I'm going to give him another week and then I'm going to get him to bring the machine back with only one group working, so at least I can have the use of it over Christmas.

Anyway it's not all bad. I've been having an interesting time refining my press-pot skills and roasting light for brewed coffee. (That's called putting a brave face on things

)

by **Raf** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:58 am

Mmkay, Phil, sorry to say this but: "Why a commercial machine in your kitchen is not always a blessing" sounds like a top title for a feature article, wouldn't you say?

by **phil** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:34 pm

If you add the caveat "if the engineer who sells it to you is a lying crook" then yes.

More to the point is why the commercial guys don't really want to bother with individuals who have commercial machines.

It's because they can't lock them into expensive coffee supply contracts! :evil:

FAQ: How to choose an espresso machine?

FAQ: How to choose an espresso machine?

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