dark french roast using the Iroast? How?

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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:10 pm

Just analysing the point at which i stopped the clock...the reading said 4.38 left...I guess that means I was already in the cooling process anyway right? Given that, what would I uses as the set up next time, bearing in mind i would be looking for that extra 30 seconds or minute?
Is there a particular reason why stage 1 is shorter than stage 2 etc?
cheers
Joe
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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:37 pm

i really should learn to think first and write later....of course it wasn't on cool when i turned it off. Everything considered it would appear that I have reached a 13.5 color on more or less a Preset 2 this time. It must all be down to having roasted with the chaff collector 'washer' on.
Joe
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Postby Gouezeri » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:29 pm

Joe,
I'm really glad that the roast has progressed to a level you now find suitable. So how about becoming a member! ;-) Phil's a nice bloke really, when you get to know him, so I'm sure he'll sort you out :lol:

Anyway, there are two things at play here. One, we've increased the air temperature and flow inside the roasting pot by making sure that the chaff ring doesn't move (I know, don't you just wish that they had built this part properly! Though it looks like I should patent my kitchen foil washer and make my self some money! ;-) ). Two, we've created a profile which is a steady (though pretty steep by most standards) ramp (preset 2 is a bit odd in that the programmed temp drops).

As you only really roasted for about 10 minutes (out of a total "roast" time of 15 minutes + a further 4 mins "cooling"), I would keep programming a total time of 11-12 (better to have time in hand and hit "cool" early) and try and bring your stage points down, aiming for a smoother/slower ramp and probably a lower/more controlled top programmed temp.
I'm far from being an expert, but how about something like this (you'll need to play with it)
• Stage 1: 190C for 4:00 min.
• Stage 2: 224+C for 5:00 min.
• Stage 3: 236C for 2-3:00 min.
Give it a try and adjust as appropriate, though to be honest, there are people here who are far more advanced roasters than I (I just happen to have experience with the I-R).

I'm really happy that you've managed to program it yourself and get some results close to what you are after (it's not that hard once you get the hang of it). Now that you've got a benchmark, you can play around some more. Something else you might want to consider is allowing the beans to rest (get some one way valve bags), I seem to remember reading somewhere that the darker you roast, the longer you want to allow the beans to rest. The guy who may be able to help us here is Tisri as he knows "the power of the dark side" better than I.
Anyway, keep trying things, keep posting back and I'm sure people here will have you trying all sorts of new beans and blends before you know it!
Congrats again
Dom
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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:09 pm

Dom,
Yes, pretty annoying about the chaff ring...amazing it can make so much difference with your 'washer' device.

It's interesting how your devised programme works so well compared to the inbuilt preset - your method has made such a huge difference. I had wondered why the in-built preset was reducing the temperature like that...odd. Your pattern seems more logical.

Thanks again for taking the time to work it all out. I was getting so fed up with not getting a cup of coffee the way I liked it...I have always enjoyed my coffee, but had reached the point where I simply couldn't even drink the roasts that I was producing. You asked about the usage of my beans - I actually use the beans for espresso in my Gaggia Sychrony Digital - I have had the machine for about 4 yeas I think, but have only been roasting for a year and a half.

Well, cheers again!

Joe
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Postby Guest » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:37 pm

before i get linched for the bean to cup machine :-) ...i do also have a La Pavoni Europiccola Lusso and a Gaggia Classic Espresso Machine...I just don't have the time to use them anymore!
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Postby Gouezeri » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:39 pm

So then Joe.... gonna "join up"? Pass on the joy? Help the next poor I-Roaster? ;-)

The chaff ring is such a disappointment, it is so easy to fix one would have expected the manufacturer to get it right. I was one of the first people to get an I-Roast in the UK and have been meaning to publish my review of it here on TMC, but I never seem to get around to finishing it :? My first two roasts were way too dark for me, but thanks to a stash of beans that was supplied with the device, I kept on trying things, including the sweetmarias tip of switching the way the chaff collector is assembled (results in other problems with the chaff collector screwing on to the pot). Till in the end, I found the "washer" idea simplest (literally what I had to hand and it can be made to size depending on how well your chaff ring has been manufactured!) and its easy to replace if it gets lost. I don't know how many people are now using this technique (the joys of the internet!) but those that have tried it around here seemed to think it does the job well (though if anybody has a better idea, please do share!!!).

In it's price bracket and for the size, I reckon the I-Roast is the best air roaster of its type, though it is far from perfect. Both it and the HotTop have their faults, sadly... but if you learn (or can find help) with getting to grips with these foibles, then the results can be great.

Once you get a feeling for what sort of profile works best for you, then you can pretty much program the I-Roast (despite the interface and believe me, you'll get used to it) and let it do it's thing... though I would always recommend watching closely for the last minute to 30 secs. I've been monitoring the temperatures of my I-Roast for the past 6 months using a thermocouple and I've been very surprised by how consistent it is.

As for the profile that I suggested, it is likely to be far from perfect, however it seemed to me to be the next obvious thing to try following your experiences with preset 2. I can imagine that it could do with quite a lot of refining to get the roast just right in the cup (and not just the roast colour). Now we need to come up with something more like a City roast for your partner, it's only fair! ;-)

Thanks again for taking the time to work it all out.

No problem. TMC is a great place for this, there are people far more experienced and knowledgeable than I, who often help out, so I just try and do my bit when I can. Better still, no matter how "goofy" the problem or question, people always take the time to respond, and do so without the attitude that you get over at CG.
Hopefully this thread might help others in the future too!
D
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Postby Guest » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:19 pm

could join Dom...but I'm not sure I have the necessary 'qualifications' compared to the big boys! Just a humble shed roaster....not terrible skilled I'm afraid...
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Postby Gouezeri » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:44 pm

Joe, (and anybody else reading this) if you needed "qualifications," fancy machinery, or a highly trained palate to be a member, they'd have kicked me out ages ago... but no, they put up with me, which is more credit to them than me ;-)
TMC is all about good company and a good cup, if you enjoy sharing either then this is a good place to be.
D
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Postby Guest » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

Dom, tried that second program you suggested today....
• Stage 1: 190C for 4:00 min.
• Stage 2: 224+C for 5:00 min.
• Stage 3: 236C for 2-3:00 min. (I DID 2 MINUTES HERE)
I know I shouldnt have, but I did taste the beans 6 hours after production ( i drink so much i can never get enough 'stock' up, not to drink it on the same day! do you have that problem?)...very nice. This refined programme is getting things 'dark french' perfect on my Iroast. My partner is now having to suffer a stream of darks as I continue to dominate the machine. Nevermind 'ey! :-)
Joe
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Postby Guest » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:51 pm

you mentioned a back to back roast in the other section....my partner keeps trying to sneak that kind of production in to play, but I won't allow it...ok once in a while i guess...
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Postby Gouezeri » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:52 pm

The problem I have is being organised enough to roast before I run out, with ideally a good 24 hours before I open up a new bag... the problem with beans that are less than a day old for espresso is that the crema is just so light (not in colour, but texture) and foamy (as the beans are still degassing)... after a couple of days though it is perfect.
Glad the profiles are getting closer to what you are after. When you say you did only 2 mins at 236 do you mean you only programmed 2 and let it run, or programmed 3 and cut it short. If I'm not sure about a profile I always add on extra time when programming and just watch carefullym as it is easier to control and repeat than adding time on (using the arrow keys).
I gather you are getting the hang of the programming lark! ;-) I know, it's a bit of a pain but you do get used to it.
D
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Postby Guest » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:01 pm

Right, I see...I must try leaving the beans, so I experience the better crema experience.
Re the latest profile - I actually just programmed 2 mins in that last section. After the first 'very near' roast, I felt 2 mins on the last stage would produce perfect results. Good method though to add extra, then watch and cut down as required...I had to leave the machine to it today, but I will def use that method in future.
I do seem to be getting the idea of programming :-) ...i wish I had a bit more expertise like yourself in achieving various roasts...with my partner enjoying a wider range of roasts and beans than I, it would be good to get more skilled.
Joe
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Postby Gouezeri » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:03 pm

eh...?
experience...?
me....?
I can here Phil and Steve laughing from here!
;-)
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Postby Guest » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:08 pm

I'd say this Iroast demands a good level of expertise relatively...and you have a pretty good handle on it. This machine isn't easy to master in program mode in my humble 'Precision' opinion :-) So if you can tailor make roast curves you must be pretty darn good :-)
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