cheap PIDs in Europe ?

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cheap PIDs in Europe ?

Postby PDP » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:53 pm

Hallo,

I hope this question won't get me flamed, but . . . have folks here found a source of reasonably-priced 1/32 DIN controllers in Europe ? I managed to find one that came in just below £100, but really I'd like to pay less :)
Given the weak dollar, has anyone tried sourcing one from the 'States?

thx for any suggestions
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Postby quink » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:54 pm

I think most of us here pick them up from ebay, that where I got mine for the princly sum of £30
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Postby zix » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:51 pm

Quink - what was the brand and type of PID? Sounds like a very good price to me.
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Postby stevenzaat » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:42 am

There are currently 2 for sale at ebay branded as Eurotherm, current price: EURO 20.
See: http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... Track=true

Does anybody know if these are good and suitale for espresso machine ?

Best regards,

Steven
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Postby jumper » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:12 pm

they look pretty good if you decide to bid on them i would gladly take one of your hands(if buying both is an option)
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Postby Guest » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:59 pm

stevenzaat wrote:There are currently 2 for sale at ebay branded as Eurotherm, current price: EURO 20.
See: http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... Track=true

Does anybody know if these are good and suitale for espresso machine ?


Steven, the guy doesn't give much information (and i don't speak Flemish) but in it's favour: it does use a type-J t/c, it uses 110/220V supply and it is a PID which are all OK for espresso. One thing you would need to ask him is whether it has an output to drive a solid-state relay.


Thx for replies re my initial question btw :o

PDP
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Postby Guest » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:19 pm

Also, it's best to have 0.1°C resolution; since these appear to have only 3 digits and your setpoint will be >100°C, they can only offer 1°C precision. They're also pretty big -- 180 mm long ?! The CAL unit on the UK ebay sounds better:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... eName=WDVW

PDP
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Postby quink » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:45 pm

zix wrote:Quink - what was the brand and type of PID? Sounds like a very good price to me.


The pid was a CAL9900. It was a while ago that I got it but I think that Simonp picked one up even cheaper than that
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Postby zix » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:55 pm

Perhaps I should have been reading up on this before asking, but is it expected to ship with a built-in SSR (solid-state relay) with a 250V/10A capacity or does one usually need to add these relays as a separate component?
Looking at the local electronic supplier's web site, I found one relay with 10/250V switching capacity which needed external cooling when used in hot environments. Is this also to be expected, meaning I would need to drill a hole through my VBM? That single SSR costs about 33€ (23£) which would make it about as expensive as an entire temperature controller...
Also, what features does one mainly need to look for? Autotune? 1/16 or 1/32 DIN (whatever that means...)?
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Postby Guest » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:57 pm

Zix, I don't think you will find a small controller with a 10A SSR built-in. Some have a small one fitted which is no good for us. Really you need one with a higher current rating than the espresso machine will use -- perhaps 25A or higher. This will make it last longer and reduce the amount of cooling or 'heat-sinking' it will require. I don't know the VBM so cannot suggest where you could fit it.

1/32, 1/16 etc. is the size of the front panel based on the German 'DIN' standards -- 1/32 is about 24 * 48 mm, 1/16 is two times bigger, 1/8 two times bigger again. If the controller is fitted outside the espresso machine then size does not matter, though clearly a 1/32 (the smallest at present) is best for internal fitting.

For a full description, I know there are many posts in the alt.coffee newsgroup describing what features you need, probably in the member forums here too I expect !
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Postby zix » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:42 pm

Ahh, thanks! I had no idea about the german DIN standard for rectangular holes. You are right, this is not important. I got the message about SSR:s too, it seems most people buy them separately.
But 25A! This would mean it would have to take close to 6000W effect. Does that mean the heater produces large surges as it switches on? 10A is around 2300W, the Domobar is rated at 1400W according to Vibiemme, which means I am at about 2/3:s of 10A, and this is the total machine rating, not just the boiler (if the numbers on lavibiemme.it are correct). Not that the price difference is that great, I was just wondering if all that juice is really needed.
Thanks for your advice!
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Postby stevenzaat » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:58 pm

Thanks everybody for their remarks. Especially the guest (why not join?). It is becoming too technical for me, so I will not bid on the PID. I just wait for the experiences of Zix and when he has finalised his project. And then I just will copy him 8) . Other problem is that I do not have enough space in my kitchen to have an additional machine om the shelve.

Zix, please let me know your experiences. I think my VBM is currently quite stable, but I am always looking for improvements, because when you have found the way to perfection in the coffee world, there is no point of return.

Best regards,

Steven
La Marzocco GS/3 with a Mini Mazzer Electronic (version B) for my espresso/cappuccino

Solis Maestro grinder for my french press vacuum brewed coffee, Hottop roaster, Cona D coffee brewer and a Bodum French Press.
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Postby matts » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:26 pm

zix wrote:Not that the price difference is that great, I was just wondering if all that juice is really needed.
Thanks for your advice!


Zix I think the over rating of the SSR is just so it doesn't get too hot, if you go for one that is happily overrated then the heatsink requirements are lessened. I think I have 25A in mine.

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Postby zix » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:37 pm

Ooops *realizes he has to do it now* I´ll let you know, Steven. Calculating the total amount of money for PID, SSR and thermocouple, it will have to wait for a while yet, though.

matts: thanks, then I know. I will probably use the chassis as heatsink anyway, but as you and guest says, it increases headroom.

guest: You are very welcome to join us! Thanks again for chipping in.
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Postby Guest » Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:45 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome guys. I will certainly join-up soon -- just too disorganised at the moment !

PDP
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