| Author |
Message |
PhilT
|
|
Post subject: Descaling Spaziale S1 Mini
 Posted: May 07, 2009 - 06:22 PM
|
|
Joined: Sep 03, 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Guildford, UK
Status: Offline
|
|
I'm about to do a descale on the S1 Mini. I read on HB that increased noise during warm up is a sign that scale is forming. I get that. It's been running six months on unfiltered medium-hard tap water, so I wouldn't be surprised. There are no drain plugs on either boiler.
I've read up on the procedure, and there seems to be a couple of options. Both involve draining the steam boiler by removing the 19mm fitting on the top (vacuum breaker) and siphoning it. I just acquired the citric acid, scary-big syringe and plastic tube necessary.
The options are whether I just descale the steam boiler (add citric acid solution straight in through the 19mm hole in the top, soak, drain and rinse with clean water) or put citric acid solution through the whole machine (from the tank into both boilers, through the electrovalves, steam arm, hot water pipe and into the group). If I did the latter, I'd probably only be able to rinse the brew boiler (which is small) by pumping a lot of water through it as it's not easy to drain (i.e. more dismantling than I'd like).
Anyone done this before and got any advice? I'm tending to the view that I need to get citric acid anywhere where hot water has been, on the basis that if I don't I'll get trouble sometime in the future.
Phil |
_________________
La Spaziale S1 Mini, Mazzer Mini E, Kyocera hand grinder
Last edited by PhilT on May 08, 2009 - 06:24 PM; edited 1 time in total
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
EricC
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 07, 2009 - 07:16 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 584
Location: Liverpool
Status: Offline
|
|
I am not sure there are that many LaSpaz S1 Mini Vivaldi owners here.
It may be worth your while looking here :
http://s1cafe.com/
specifically in the LaSpaziale S1 Mini Vivaldi section at the bottom of the page.
Regards
Eric |
_________________
La Marzocco GS/3, Versalab M3, Elektra Nino, Quest M3 Roaster.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
PhilT
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 08, 2009 - 09:38 AM
|
|
Joined: Sep 03, 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Guildford, UK
Status: Offline
|
|
Thanks Eric. There is some good information on s1cafe.com and I think the posts there suggest treating only the boilers (a range of ideas put forward of course). The instructions from Bellabarista suggest a similar boiler draining method but also putting the citric acid through the whole machine.
Generally speaking (ignoring specifics of the S1) what do people here favour for descaling similar machines? Is it good to get the citric acid throughout the hot water paths, or just in the boilers?
Phil |
_________________
La Spaziale S1 Mini, Mazzer Mini E, Kyocera hand grinder
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
bruceb
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 08, 2009 - 10:23 AM
|
|
Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 4210
Location: Northern Hesse, Germany
Status: Offline
|
|
| I suppose this is controversial, but in my experience scale causes more of a problem in the small diameter pipes and tubing than in the boiler. Buildup in the boiler is generally faster, but the problem of flowthrough in smaller passages can be more serious. I would try to descale the whole machine, but only if I had determined that it is really necessary. |
_________________
Three Francesconi (CMA) espresso machines - Rossi, San Marco, LaCimbali, Faema and 2 Mazzer Major grinders- CoffeeTech Maggionlino, Hottop, Alpenröst and HW Precision roasters.
This week I are nutating in my dreams. 
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 08, 2009 - 12:03 PM
|
|
Joined: Jan 26, 2009
Posts: 85
Location: Middlesex, UK
Status: Offline
|
|
I agree with Bruce. I'm not familiar with the S1, but on many machines if you want to take a quick peek in the path between boiler and group it is often a simple task to remove the group solenoid valve(if your solenoid is one of those with a square base that just bolts onto the side of the group.) Make sure you have replacement o-rings before you do this though - they should be replaced periodically in any case.
If I decided I did indeed want to descale the hot water paths, I would still descale the boiler and drain it first. My fear in descaling everything at once would be that I dislodge some scale from the boiler that subsequently gets trapped in a narrow part of the hot water path. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
marmhz
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 08, 2009 - 04:40 PM
|
|
Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
|
|
I also agree with the former posters. It's better to take the machine apart and descale all the parts separately. You won't get all the scale out with just flushing citric acid through the system. Besides that there is a great risk that some particles will block tubing or solenoids.
If the machine works ok I would wait though because after 6 months is pretty fast for a descale if you have middle hard water. Try to descale the water you put in the machine then the need of a descale is even further away. |
_________________
Before: La Cimbali Junior S/1, Fiorenzato Bricoletta
Now: Expobar Brewtus III
Mazzer Mini E A
Iroast 2, Behmor 1600
Understanding girlfriend
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
PhilT
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 08, 2009 - 06:56 PM
|
|
Joined: Sep 03, 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Guildford, UK
Status: Offline
|
|
I found that Thames Water has water hardness measurements online for their water supply area.
For me (Guildford West) it's 275.5 mg/l (=ppm) CaC03. That's pretty hard according to their scale (soft<100ppm, medium 100-200ppm, hard>200ppm)
Use this web page if you're interested (type in postcode):
http://www.thameswater.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/corp/hs.xsl/899.htm
Anyway, this tells me I shouldn't leave it too long.
bruceb, carl, marmhz: thanks for the advice. I ought to run it off softened water, but I cannot bring myself to bother with more equipment. I get a strange pleasure from pouring tap water in and pumping espresso out. I'm hoping that by regular descaling of the machine, I'll get away with using untreated tap water. That and perhaps get it thoroughly descaled by a service centre in a few years. Good idea to do the steam boiler first and rinse it out, before pumping the solution through the pipes.
Phil |
_________________
La Spaziale S1 Mini, Mazzer Mini E, Kyocera hand grinder
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
EricC
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2009 - 10:30 AM
|
|
Joined: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 584
Location: Liverpool
Status: Offline
|
|
Don't forget Phil.
Prevention is better than cure.   |
_________________
La Marzocco GS/3, Versalab M3, Elektra Nino, Quest M3 Roaster.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Carl
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2009 - 10:38 AM
|
|
Joined: Jan 26, 2009
Posts: 85
Location: Middlesex, UK
Status: Offline
|
|
Phil,
Until recently, I've been using the leftover boiled water from the kettle (I'm guessing you already have one of these ??) I did some hardness tests on cooled boiled water and the hardness was roughly half that of the un-boiled water - which explains the scale precipitation in the kettle I guess. (I'm in Teddington, so maybe similar water to you.)
Another thing you might consider is using the small disposable ion-exchange resin-bead filters that you put in the tank. Although they're nominally disposable and work out quite expensive if you do change them regularly, you can in fact regenerate them by flushing with brine (dishwasher salt). They're mini so might go with the rest of your kit 
Good luck with the descale. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
PhilT
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 18, 2009 - 01:15 PM
|
|
Joined: Sep 03, 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Guildford, UK
Status: Offline
|
|
Thanks for the helpful suggestions.
Carl: do you happen to know any web links to the kind of tank based filters you're talking about? If such a thing is effective and easy to maintain, that might be a good option. I googled a bit and found options for plumbed-in filters, but not something that could sit in a tank.
Phil |
_________________
La Spaziale S1 Mini, Mazzer Mini E, Kyocera hand grinder
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
sicinius
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 06, 2009 - 11:40 AM
|
|
Joined: Nov 11, 2008
Posts: 65
Location: Elham Valley
Status: Offline
|
|
http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/water-filters.html
They work brilliantly but need changing every 2 months. I tried leaving one on there an extra month and the result has been lots of visible scale on the silicon pipes out of the tank on my Zaffiro. Won't be making that mistake again.
I might try regenerating them. How do you know when they have regenerated? |
_________________
Isomac Zaffiro, Isomac Gran Macinino, Krups burr grinder, Aeropress, Stovetop espresso, various Moka stovetops, 3 cafetieres, 50's glass Cona. 'L' plates
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
PhilT
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Nov 30, 2009 - 10:44 PM
|
|
Joined: Sep 03, 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Guildford, UK
Status: Offline
|
|
At last I got round to doing this while it rained all weekend. I decided to do the steam boiler first, rinse and then the rest of the internals. I used citric acid from a brewing shop.
Notes:
- Remove the vacuum breaker from the top of the steam boiler (with 19mm socket)
- Note level of water (about 5cm from top). (Refill to this level when filling later on)
- Syphon the water out with a tube. The tube outer diameter must be 12mm or less to pass through the vacuum breaker hole. I got a 100ml syringe from a hydroponics shop to suck the water up into the tube. Once done, let the water just run through - takes about 15s to drain. The tube sucks up some loose scale on the base of the boiler.
- Fill steam boiler with warm citric acid to original water level; soak until fizzing stops
- Empty & rinse a couple of times. Vague green tint to the used citric. Boiler interior looks clean.
- Refill with more citric acid & put vacuum breaker back in
- Put some citric acid in the main tank
- Switch on and pump citric through into the brew boiler (until it comes out of the group)
- Once up to pressure, pump citric through HW outlet and steam arm
- Switch off
- Wait until fizzing noise stops in brew boiler
- Replace tank water with clean water & power up
- Run HW outlet until steam boiler refills (bringing clean water into the steam boiler supply pipe)
- Switch off & cool
- Remove vacuum breaker once again; symphon steam boiler; rinse a couple of times; refill with boiled water to original level
- Refit vacuum breaker (renew PTFE tape; about 7 turns clockwise)
- Power up
- Pump (lots of) clean water through the group. Output starts off with a green tint and is OK after about a tank. Let the pump rest now & then as you do this.
- When up to temperature, run the HW outlet & steam arm to clean those out.
This was my first descale after a year of use (about 1200 drinks). That interval seems about right.
Phil |
_________________
La Spaziale S1 Mini, Mazzer Mini E, Kyocera hand grinder
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
